Dumbledore ... COME ON HE IS NOT DEAD! not for long! ;)

[kiricat4001]

No: HPFGUIDX 135786

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "diliapacheco" 
<diliapacheco at y...> wrote:
> Marianne:
> <snip> However, my impression is that [Occlumency] is now a non-
starter - Harry doesn't need this to protect himself from the 
invasions of Vmort.  Why?  Because Harry has the ability to 
> love people, which is anethema to Vmort. <snip>  
> 
> 
> Dilie wrote:
> I don't think you took that conversation that DD had with HP about 
> Occlumancy the way some of us did
 You see, LV is currently using 
> Occlumancy to protect himself from Harry and the Order. However, 
that does not mean that when LV wants to check out if DD is really 
dead, he wont go through Harry's thoughts, which are obviously 
pretty easy to see. Lets face it, that's not one of his forte. 
> 

Marianne:

Agreed, we're probably interpreting the conversation in two 
different ways.  And, again agreed Harry is not good at blocking his 
thoughts, but he's full of information now about the search for the 
Horcruxes, something that Voldemort might find interesting to 
learn.  To me, that's another indication that there is less concern 
on DD's part of the invasion of Harry's mind by Vmort.  
   
 
> Marianne:
> Agreed, but, he will be the hero if DD has indeed bit the 
> proverbial dust. If Dumbledore rises and again leads the way, then 
Harry is no more than the hammer DD needs to pound in that last nail 
in the  coffin.
> 
> 
> Dilia wrote:
> Again, we are failing to see at the same way. A mentor does not 
push you through the way; he shows you, and most of the time, he 
> facilitates many troubles that may be in the way. If we concur on 
> this, than maybe we are getting somewhere. 
> 

Marianne:
Absolutely I concur on the role of a mentor. My gut reaction though 
is that Dumbledore's role as active mentor is over. Yes, he may have 
left more information for Harry, or his portrait may share insights 
in Book 7, but I don't see him playing an active role because I 
believe he is dead. So, we're almost on the same page, but I guess 
this is the point at which I take a detour! 

As an aside, assuming that Portrait!DD has words to tell Harry 
regarding the Horcruxes, and since Harry has taken DD's words to 
heart about not telling anyone other than Ron and Hermione about 
them, do you think they will ask McGonagall to vacater her own 
office so they can have a private chat?  
  
> Marianne:
> Well, if JKR's only reason to bump off Sirius is to make me 
believe 
> that DD could also die, when she's really planning on bringing him 
> back, then that's an incredibly stupid reason. Especially, if what 
> you seem to suggest is some authorial sleight of hand:  Sirius is 
> killled off, so I'll believe it when DD is apparently killed.  
And, 
> then, in Book 7, DD springs up alive?  And, I'm supposed to be 
> happy about this?  I'd feel manipulated in the extreme.
> 
> 
> Dilia wrote:
> No, no, no. Why do you have to call it stupid? We've been over 
this in other messages on the same topic. It could be that 
Dumbledore was 
> interested in Harry seeing him die. For instance, if Harry finally 
> sees Dumbledore, the best Wizard ever, die before his eyes, maybe 
> just maybe he would finally realize that he is also human. And 
with this, he would start to believe in himself, mature a lot, and 
> acknowledge the great wizard he also is. Since in all the books he 
> always doubts his powers, he is just human. In conclusion, I guess 
Dumbledore wanted Harry to meditate on his death, so that he starts 
believing in himself, as he did at the end of the 6th book, where it 
is obvious he has matured a lot. 

Marianne: 
You're right - this is what I get for jumping into the middle of the 
discussion without knowing the nuances.  Sorry if I offended you. 
That was not my intent. My reply to your post stems from a 
discussion I had with a friend who went though a detailed summation 
of why Dumbledore is not dead, and I simply don't agree with that.  
We'll see eventually which is the truth, and I readily admit I don't 
have a great track record with predicting JKR's surprises.