Harry's entitlement - Long!(was Re: "Some won't like it".)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 130018

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
<dumbledore11214 at y...> wrote:
>
> ...edited...
>
> Phoenixgod:
> if Dumbledore or Snape connected learning occulomency to some kind 
> of reward like becoming a junior member of the order or some 
> knowledge about what was going on, I think Harry would have thrown 
> himself into the lessons with gusto, regardless of who was teaching 
> them. but he was expected to just learn them with no added promises 
> of being brought more into the know. contrast that with if he could 
> just make it through that door...

 
> Alla:
> 
> Interesting. I have to think about this one. :-)
> 
> Just my opinion of course,
> 
> Alla

Bboyminn:

Now I think Phoenixgod has touched on something very important;
something I also tried to stress but approached it differently.

"...learning occulomency to some kind of reward..."

"...added promises..."

Except I think the key is more general than a 'reward' or 'promise'.
The key is /motivation/. No kid was ever motivated by 'because I said
so', and certainly NO teenager was ever motivated by that approach.
There were ample opportunities to motivate Harry without giving away
any secrets.

Let go for the quote first-

---Quote - OotP - Am Ed HB - Pg 433---
"The important point is that the Dark Lord is now aware that you are
gaining access to his thoughts and feelings. He has also deduced
that the process is likely to work in reverse; that is to say, he
has realized that he might be able to access your thoughts and
feelings in return --"

"And he might try and make me do things?" asked Harry. "Sir?" he
added hurriedly.

"He might," said Snape, sounding cold and unconcerned. "Which
brings us back to Occlumency."
- - - end quote - - -

Right there at the end is the perfect opportunity to clear things up.
 Yes, Harry does say "...he might try and make me do things?", but how
does Snape respond? With a causal 'maybe' and a dismissal of the core
question. Which, by the way, is just one of a long frustrating series
of dismissals and avoidances of Harry questions.

That was the perfect opportunity for Snape to say, 'Yes! That is
exactly why you need to learn to block Voldemort from you mind.' But
Snape does not truly confirm Harry suspicions, relative to this
critical and vitally important KEY piece of knowledge and
understanding, Snape is 'cold and unconcerned'. If there is anything
in that conversation that Snape and Harry should be concerned about,
it's making aboslutely sure that Harry understands the full magnitude
and importance of that point.

---Quote - OotP - Am Ed HB - pg 538---
"I want you back here same time on Wednesday, and we will continue
work the." [Snape is speaking]

"Fine," said Harry/ He was desperate to get out of Snape's office and
find Ron and Hermione.

"You are to rid your mind of all emotion every night before you sleep
-- empty it, make it blank and clam, you understand?" [again Snape is
speaking]

"Yes," said Harry, who was barely listening.

- - - end quote - - -

Again, a perfect opportunity is lost.

Harry understands that he is suppose to block his dreams, but I will
bet dollars to donuts that Harry, Ron, and Hermione ALL assume that
means Harry is support to stop the normal dreams that Harry is having
where he views things that are happening to Voldemort. 

At this critical point, no one impresses on Harry that Voldemort now
has the ability to intentionally project images into Harry's dreams,
and more importantly, that Voldemort can project false images and
scenes. If Harry understood that these /special/ dreams he had been
having of real events NOW had the potential to be false dreams, false
dreams manufactured by Voldemort with the clear intent of making Harry
take action based on that false information, Harry would have had
clear and sure /motivation/ to try and lock out those dreams, and to
give far less weight to any dreams he might have.

This is shown in a crystal clear manner to be Harry's exact attitude
when he has the dream about Sirius. Despite Hermione's speculation to
the contrary, all Harry's previous /special/ dreams had been of true
events, and he had no reason, no MOTIVATION, to think that this dream
was any different.

Further, to reveal this information to Harry would not have
compromised the Order or their secrets or plans in any way. It is all
pretty neutral information, that would have been of tremendous help to
Harry and of no detriment to anyone else.

All this said, I really do understand this attitude by adults with
regard to keeping kids in the dark. It's not always so much that they
are willfully keeping kids in the dark, it's just that kids thoughts
and feelings are given very little consideration by adults. Harry is
tucked away at the Dursleys, yes - it's difficult for him, but he'll
muddle through, time marches on, Dumbledore has things to do, and
Harry is just left without a thought; essentially warehoused. Perhaps
not willfully with calculated intent is he warehouse, but in the end,
functionally, that is exactly what happens. He's a kid; the adults
will handle this.

Of course, the ultimate answer to this problem is that things went
this way because JKR needed the story to go this way. Given that this
is the direction JKR had to force the story, was she able to do it in
a way that was consistent with the related characters?

Let's see -

Snape is a jerk - [check]
Dumbledore is very tight with information - [check]
Sirius is headstrong and impulsive - [check]
Harry has a 'saving people thing' - [check]
Adults are adults - [check]
Kids are kids - [check]
Teens are moody, hard put upon, and angst ridden - [check]

All systems - GO!

Steve/bboyminn