Harry's entitlement - Long!(was Re: "Some won't like it".)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 130012

Guinger:
<SNIP>The connection has been explained to him as well as they 
understand it.  And he is still Impatient!Harry.  


Phoenixgod: 
No it wasn't.  They kew exactly what Voldemort was after and how he 
was going to try and get it. thats why they weren't telling him 
anything. All Snape told him was that Voldemort could get into his 
head and use his emotions.  Not the why of the situation.  Why would 
Voldemort spend his time picking through Harry's head?  why would he 
try to make Harry do anything?  Harry doesn't have any knowledge, 
power and influnce for Voldemort go after (as far as Harry knew), 
what could he possibly want that was locked in Harry's head?
 
How hard would it have been to say, "Harry, voldemort will want you 
do something. no I can't tell you what until after you learn 
occulomency. but if you have any strange urges or dreams, for gods 
sake don't give in to them. they will most likely be a trick!"


Alla:

Yes, yes, Phoenixgod, ITA with your whole post. :-)  No, I 
completely disagree that Harry was given clear explanation  as to 
why he had to learn Occlumency.

Let's not forget WHO gave him that explanation. :-)

That is why I am so adamant that Snape's creating constant emnity 
between him and Harry during these five years blew in the Order face 
in a spectacular sort of way. Snape was the last person Harry would 
believe, IMO. And as Eggplant pointed out Harry did ask whether  
this is what Dumbledore guesses about the connection, but in 
response he got "I told you to call me Sir" :-)

At least Snape could have rely on Dumbledore to make Harry trust the 
information more, IMO.


Guinger:
In some cases, what they weren't telling Harry was information
that they didn't know, or had only a vague guess about.

Phoenixgod:

Dumbledore knew the answer to virtually every question Harry asked 
in OOTP. he just played things too close to the chest.


Alla:

Oh, they knew all right, IMO. They knew perfectly well that 
Voldemort may try to lure Harry in DoM and why or at least 
Dumbledore did. They did guard the Prophecy after all. THAT what 
Harry needed to hear, or at least as you said - that Voldemort may 
have send false dreams in Harry's head in general.

Harry knows about connection between him and Voldie for a long time. 
He experienced the connection since GoF at least.

What he had not been told is what changed. Why now the connection 
become especially dangerous, IMO.


Phoenixgod:

Actually the order's reasons weren't good. Dmbledore admits that it
was wrong to leave Harry in the dark for the year. Tat says to me
that Dumbledore had a method to give Harry information and he just
decided not to use it because that meant Harry would have to learn
the prophecy that dumbledore didn't want to share. I say about 90%
of the blame is on Dumbledore, about 9% is on the rest of the order
for going along with such crapy decision making and 1% on Harry.


Alla:

Let's also not forget that not only Dumbledore admits that it was 
wrong to keep Harry in the dark the whole year, but the whole idea 
of him keeping distance from Harry in itself was wrong and useless.

"I was sure that if he realised what our relationship was - or had 
ever been - closer than that of headmaster or pupil, he would have 
seize his chance  to use you as means to spy on me.
...

I was trying , in distancing myself from you, to protect you. An old 
man mistake...
...

Voldemort's aim in possessing  you, as he demonstrated tonight, 
would not have been my destruction. It would have been yours. he 
hoped, when he possessed you briefly a short while ago, that I would 
sacrifice you in hopes of killing him." - OOP, paperback, p.828.


It seems to me that Dumbledore acknowledges that he was wrong to 
keep the distance from Harry in the first place, because it would 
not have made any difference to Voldie.


Phoenixgod:
if Dumbledore or Snape connected learning occulomency to some kind 
of reward like becoming a junior member of the order or some 
knowledge about what was going on, I think Harry would have thrown 
himself into the lessons with gusto, regardless of who was teaching 
them. but he was expected to just learn them with no added promises 
of being brought more into the know. contrast that with if he could 
just make it through that door...

Alla:

Interesting. I have to think about this one. :-)

Just my opinion of course,

Alla