[HPforGrownups] Re: Explaining the danger to Harry (LONG)

[doliesl at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 130105

> Betsy Hp:
> Okay, I'm tired and just about to go to bed so I apologize in 
> advance if I sound snarky, but what part about THE DARK LORD KNOWS 
> YOU WERE IN HIS HEAD!!  HE IS NOW TRYING TO GET INTO YOURS!!! do 
> folks who *insist* Harry had no earthly idea that anything was wrong 
> not understand?  What part of YOU MEAN HE COULD MAKE ME FEEL OR DO 
> THINGS? SIR? comes across as "Errrr...  I don't understand what you 

Betsy, in my opinion I think some posters here just wanted to completely excuse poor
Harry and argue CanDoNoWrong!Harry and How-Dare-You-Harry-is-always-aboslutely-Right and
Let's-Always-Blame-Others so bad that they turn a blind eye to some blalantly obvious
things, at least to me as a reader. We read JKR writings for 5 books, the whole passages
are like screaming foreshadowing on what will happen.  The half second after I read that
quote "YOU MEAN HE COULD MAKE ME FEEL OR DO THINGS? SIR?" I get it that instantly. Those
who tried to argue "well at the end LV used faux image, not making Harry do stuff, so
that's different!~ Blah blah what's the difference? The keypoint is idea of "fatal
influence and link from LV through head" is told to Harry, in both obvious and subtle
ways, again and again. How dumb can Harry be? Harry IS dumb, this is what everyone agrees
because everyone cheers on him being so right in lacking basic logic, basic understanding
skill, and lacking in subtlety (which all means we all agree Snape is RIGHT about that at
least!). 'But I5 years old are that thick,' as if that is the mantra to convince how all
readers cannot have other reaction to the text, because "He's 15" we ought to find such
15 years old idiotic behavior lovable, and must excuse everything to become
Harry-Apologist (and engaged in savage pleasure in blaming others,....) 

> Alla:
> 
> Ummm, Betsy, nobody ignores that part of canon ( myself 
> included) . :-)
> 
> People actually addressed it ( myself included) several times but 
> before I do some quoting I will be happy to reiterate the gist of my 
> answer to you. :-)


So ironic that you quote back the so-called "quotes' claim that other person as prove
"see? don't think anybody is ignoring anything here",  because it exactly points out how
deliberately he IGNORE the following passagse.

Here's some of the quotes that are 'missing', (paste from other post)

..."The important thing is that THE DARK LORD IS NOW AWARE THAT YOU
ARE GAINING ACCESS TO HIS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS.  HE HAS ALSO DEDUCED
THAT THE PROCESS IS LIKELY TO WORK IN REVERSE; THAT IS TO SAY, HE HAS
REALIZED THAT HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO ACCESS YOUR THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS
IN RETURN -"

"AND HE MIGHT TRY AND MAKE ME DO THINGS?" asked Harry....

 
> 
> Oh, and perhaps you will be surprised but I am not even arguing that 
> Harry was entirely right. :-)

No, I keep reading from this list that people ARE arguing Harry was absolutely right,
especially point out how right his attitude in Occlumency lesson (see? because the
teacher sucks who can't teach shit, therefore the student is right for not making an
effort to practice~ ). Also [people cheer on thow 'absolutely right' Harry for not
listening and distrusting Snape, which means such right decision and right attitude also
led to the RIGHT decision that to believe the false vision, making the RIGHT decision in
going to MoM that led to Sirius's death. Sorry Sirius, you're RIGHT to die, you deserve
to die, because every bad decision, oops not bad but RIGHT, bottom line is Harry is right
in not practicing.  

> He sure made some mistakes and I am sure will recognise them, BUT 
> when I start COMPARING his mistakes and Dumbledore and Snape, then 
> Harry's mistakes pale to me.

>From a non Harry apologist view, I see how every key fatal decision is made by Harry (A:
believe in vision, B: stupidly forgetting Snape, C: stupidly conveniently forgetting the
mirror, and D: going to MoM). Harry's mistakes is gigantic and he made the decisions
himself. Just like how some argue the Prank, it's the one who made the decision to go
that's what it's all about.

> Then I cannot assign more than tiny percentage of blame to Harry, 
> because I find what Dumbledore and Snape did so eggregious.

It is exactly this arguing of so-called percentage of blame that I find silly and 
pointless. Well it's different way to read books for different people I guess. Some
people take it all about blame game and excuse/apologize for their favorite character. To
some people it is all about: to hate and to blame.
Does blaming and excusing suddenly make more sense to text/characterization (hell no is
my opinion), or convince others to become Harry apologists? To me I enjoyed a story and
understands plot devices and things have to happen. Whether I buy the writing and
characterization. I'm okay with OOTP, the most problem I have is how blatantly stupid she
made Harry and DD to let the story works (since Harry is the hero and the book is all
about Harry, and he appears on pages most of the time and he made those 4 decisions, so
he's more annoying, hope he redeemed himself in next book).

D.