Explaining the danger to Harry (LONG)

[kgpopp]

No: HPFGUIDX 130125

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "juli17ptf" <juli17 at a...> wrote:
<Snip>
> Again, I think it is not only incorrect but it would be damaging to 
> assign Harry only a *tiny* percentage of the blame. If he doesn't 
> accept that his own actions (or inactions) can have consequences
> down the road, i.e, take responsibility for his own mistakes, then 
> how can  he grow and mature as a person?

Kristen: Here, Here!  Great post!  It has been really fun to watch 
the 2 sides debate this topic.  I finally had to show my support for 
Julie's post.  (I fall into they are both to blame camp myself.)   

> And I'm not saying he deserves a lion's-share of the blame. In 
> fact, I don't think it's even about percentages. It's just about 
> the actions. Dumbledore takes the most blame, and probably justly 
> so as his actions had the most consequences. He didn't give Harry 
> enough information, falsely believing he was somehow protecting
> Harry. <Snip> 

Kristen again -  I agree DD made a mistake but what I love is that he 
can admit it and I expect he will learn from it.

> Snape, who actually acted slightly better toward Harry during 
> Occlumency than he normally does in Potions (he actually gave Harry 
> grudging praise at one point during Occlumency, perhaps the first 
> he has ever delivered to Harry), still only manages to improve his 
> behavior *slightly.* And that wasn't enough, not when so much was 
> at stake. Snape didn't suck it up for the cause like he should 
> have, and put all his personal feelings aside, which was his 
> mistake.

Kristen again.  You make a good point about Snape, but this is 
another place I feel Harry made a mistake.   While it made for a 
great story and interesting reading I think Harry was way out of line 
to take a dip in the pensive s  to see Snape's memories.  Granted it 
does not really fair that Snape gets to hide some of his memories in 
a pensive while Harry's memories are available for Snape to probe.  
but... unfortunately life is not often fair.

> As for Harry, his mistake wasn't doubting whether the Occlumency 
> was working, or doubting whether it was really that dangerous to 
> have such contact with LV (it helped him save Arthur Weasley after 
> all). He had reason for doubting both (though he can't come back 
> later and claim he wasn't TOLD how important Occlumency was, 
> because he was told). He just wasn't shown in any meaningful way 
> what the consequences were (back to Dumbledore not sharing enough 
> information). 
> Harry's biggest mistake--besides believing himself invincible in 
> that teenager sense that is impossible to eradicate until maturity 
> kicks in--was the same as Dumbledore's. He didn't share 
> information. Even though he was told how important the lessons 
> were, he didn't tell Snape or Dumbledore that it didn't seem to be 
> working, or that his visions were getting stronger, or that he had 
> an increasingly uncontrollable urge to see what was behind that 
> door. 
> 
> Now, granted, Harry said some things to Ron and Hermoine, and 
> granted Snape and Dumbledore weren't exactly approachable for 
> different reasons, but Harry knew he was wrong to keep pursuing the 
> visions. He THOUGHT so to himself. But he also kept it to himself. 
> And he even resorted to lying to everyone about whether he was 
> practicing Occlumency to stay a course he knew was wrong. 

Kristen: I really like the point you make about Harry's own behavior 
and his mistake being the same as DD.  Note: I think the canons are 
clear that Harry knew he was doing something that was wrong or at 
least risky and he continued out of curiosity.  Now I'm sure that 
some would argue he wouldn't have been curious if DD had told him 
more information 
 

While we can debate forever what more DD could/should have told Harry 
the key point to me is that Harry knew it was wrong to keep having 
the dreams because he lied to his friends and felt guilty.   Again 
this doesn't mean I don't hold DD also accountable.   

> But this is all about Harry maturing and reaching his potential. If 
> he is to do that, then he must look back at where *he* went wrong
> and accept his mistakes (as Dumbledore accepts his own mistakes), 
> and even assign himself more blame than is perhaps necessary (as 
> Dumbledore did himself). That's part of maturing. (Oh, and whether 
> Snape does the same--doubtful--is beside the point, because this is 
> about Harry growing up and fulfilling his potential as a person, 
> not Snape--who likely never will.)
> 
> So I for one hope in HBP to see Harry accept some blame for the 
> Occlumency debacle, and not just a tiny percentage of it (i.e, 
> saying "Well, I made mistakes, but the ones DD and Snape made were 
> so much worse that mine hardly count.") In the end it is about 
> accepting responsibility for your own actions, and leaving others 
> to accept or not accept their own culpability. That is what will 
> prove Harry's character, to himself and to us. 
> 
> Julie

Kristen again great post