Explaining the danger to Harry (LONG)

[Renee Daniels]

No: HPFGUIDX 130141

Julie Said:
> > Snape, who actually acted slightly better toward Harry during 
> > Occlumency than he normally does in Potions (he actually gave
> > Harry grudging praise at one point during Occlumency, perhaps
> > the first he has ever delivered to Harry), still only manages 
> > to improve his behavior *slightly.* And that wasn't enough, not
> > when so much was at stake. Snape didn't suck it up for the 
> > cause like he should have, and put all his personal feelings 
> > aside, which was his mistake.

Me (Calimora):
I'm not sure Snape can suck it up that much. Consider, if Snape knew 
that Voldemort could be spying on the Order through Harry, then he 
knew that his life could literaly rest on his ability to teach.  
This should be the defining moment of his teaching career. 
(Depending on how many layers of double agenting you think Snape is 
acting under.) After all, Harry has more information on Snape's 
activities than any other (active) member of the order. In my mind, 
this should be one heck of a motivating factor.

It is also a motivation that Harry lacks entirely. As Julie mentions 
later in her post, the visions have never caused him harm, infact, 
they helped saved a life. People may have told him that things had 
changed, but in previous years authority figures have told him on 
numerous occasions to stay out of things - but when he gets into 
them he's always been praised for his actions after the fact. 

Also important to keep in mind is that Harry has never been 
irrepairably injured or punished for specific and resonable 
incidences. Cedric was random. The Durselys, Snape, and Umbridge got 
him for everything and anything, while the one other serious 
detention mentioned - 150 pts for breaking curfew in 1st yr - 
actually should have been for dragon smuggling and much worse. The 
impact of that punishment was further mitigated by Dumbledore's 
point game at the closing feast. In Harry's experience, action and 
negative consequences are rare companions. (In many ways I think the 
HP kids are probably somewhat less mature than muggles of a similar 
age, simply because so much can be 'fixed' with magic. But that's a 
whole other can of worms.)

Kristen Said:  You make a good point about Snape, but this is 
> another place I feel Harry made a mistake.   While it made for a 
> great story and interesting reading I think Harry was way out of 
> line to take a dip in the pensive s  to see Snape's memories. 
> Granted it does not really fair that Snape gets to hide some of 
> his memories in a pensive while Harry's memories are available for
> Snape to probe. But... unfortunately life is not often fair.

Me:
Actually, I blame this one almost entirely on Dumbledore and the 
lack of a 'wizarding culture' class at Hogwarts. 

When a child is caught sneaking a cookie, the parent's should give 
him a swat on the hand and extra broccoli at dinner, not offer to 
pour the milk. Harry did dip into a penseive once before and insted 
of being told that it was a gross violation of privacy he and 
Dumbledore sat down and discussed what he saw. The thing that bugged 
Harry most about the episode was not that he peeked, but that he 
opened a cupboard to do so. Snape's was right in the open. It was 
also the first time personal information was seen in a pensieve. The 
difference between the two experiences is like going over a work 
note book and reading a diary.

As for Harry's hesitation equalling knowlage of wrong doing - He 
didn't really know that he was Wrong, he knew that he'd get In 
Trouble and that he shouldn't be doing it. Both of which are 
entirely different than wrong (as in moraly reprehensible). 


Julie Said:
> > And he even resorted to lying to everyone about whether he was 
> > practicing Occlumency to stay a course he knew was wrong. 
> 
And Kristen replied: 
> I really like the point you make about Harry's own 
> the key point to me is that Harry knew it was wrong to keep having 
> the dreams because he lied to his friends and felt guilty.

Me:
I find it amusing that Harry's lying is noteworthy in this instance. 
Go reread the books. Fudge is about the only authority figure that 
the trio haven't lied to or deliberately manipulated. It's also not 
the first time Harry's lied to his friends about 
something 'important'. Remember the Second Task? It may have 
been 'just a game' but Harry thought it was life and death. After 
all, people had died in the tournament. 

Actually, so much of what Harry has done in the past few years was 
life and death that he probably has problems thinking in half 
measures.

Julie Again:
> > But this is all about Harry maturing and reaching his potential.
> > If he is to do that, then he must look back at where *he* went 
> > wrong and accept his mistakes. That's part of maturing. (Oh, and 
> > whether Snape does the same--doubtful--is beside the point, 
> > because this is about Harry growing up and fulfilling his 
> > potential as a person, not Snape--who likely never will.)
> > 
> > In the end it is about accepting responsibility for your own 
> > actions, and leaving others to accept or not accept their own 
> > culpability. That is what will prove Harry's character, to 
> > himself and to us. 

Me: 
I totaly agree, As one of my favorite fanfic authors said - Being an 
adult is not knowing more or doing more. It is making your own 
choice about how much you should know and how much you should do. 


~Calimora (But am bloody-minded enough to want others to notice 
Harry's growth and get what's coming to them.)