Mental Discipline in the WW: A Comparison (long) (was:Snape the Zen Master...)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 130270

Jen:
> >The bottom line is, when faced with a hundred dementors gliding
> >across the lake Harry was able to produce a fully-formed corporeal
> >Patronus. When faced with intrusions by the Dark Lord into his
> >mind, Harry was unable to use Occlumency to block them.<
> <snip>

> Betsy Hp:
> But it doesn't necessarily follow that the teacher alone is to 
> blame.  At least, not for his techniques.  Because Harry *does* 
> learn to push those out of his mind that he doesn't want there. Or 
> he gets a good start on it, at least. I again point towards
> Pippin's post. 

Jen: I definitely agree with you that the teacher alone cannot 
determine a student's skill level. Especially after the student 
leaves the classroom and practices in the RW. All sneering and 
provoking aside, the text implies that Snape was clearly aware of 
the danger if Harry failed to learn Occlumency. He did take the job 
seriously, no matter his personal feelings for Harry, and he did 
attempt to teach Harry the skill. 

The Occlumency lessons failed to produce a positive outcome, 
however, so there was a breakdown along the way that didn't occur 
when Harry learned to cast a Patronus. 

And back to the idea of mental discipline. I can't resist a Star 
Wars parallel here: The mental discipline required for practicing 
magic, *particularly* Occlumency, reminds me of the Jedi teachings 
regarding the ways of the Force. Free yourself from negative 
emotions, practice emptying your mind, remain focused. Maybe Harry 
would have responded better to Yoda: "Empty your mind, control your 
emotions and repel the Dark Lord you will." Heh.

Betsy: 
> The breakdown seems to occur with motivation.  And yes, I do agree 
> that Snape has some culpability here, as does Dumbledore, and as 
> does Sirius.  All three allowed Voldemort an in.  Dumbledore did
> so by keeping secrets from Harry, Snape did so by helping
> Dumbledore keep his secrets, and Sirius did so by implying that
> the Occlumency lessons were not all that important.  (Harry was 
> surprised that his "bad boy" act - the lessons were boring, no big
> loss - didn't please his Godfather, who'd been egging him on to be
> a bad boy from almost the beginning of OotP.)

Jen: YES! Couldn't agree more, esp. about the secretive nature of 
Dumbledore and Snape in regards to Occlumency. On the one hand it 
was essential to the secrecy of the Order. OTOH, was Dumbledore's 
strategy really working at this point? Harry was a loose cannon and 
couldn't be convinced otherwise. That alone endangered the agenda as 
much as DD's fears about LV's intrusions.

But hey, DD admitted he made a few mistakes. Can't string him up for 
thinking he chose the lesser evil at the time. I mean *someone* 
will, but it won't be me.

Betsy:
> However, I think what Snape tells Harry to do, the instructions he
> gives are about what Harry would have received from any other
> teacher.  (This will be an easy theory to test with the next book,
> if Harry continues Occlumency lessons under Dumbledore.)

Jen: It's never the content of Snape's speech that's the problem, 
it's simply how he says it. Your canon quotes from Snape's speech in 
your original post left out many of the descriptors for how Snape 
talks to Harry: "said contemptuously"; "said in a dangerous 
voice"; "spat Snape"; "snarled Snape"; "said Snape coolly"; "said 
Snape repressively"; "said Snape's cold voice"; "said Snape 
sharply"; "said Snape savagely".....(OOTP, US, chap. 24, pps. 530-
537)

I suppose someone is going to argue with me that this is a POV 
issue. So let's say Harry is accurate in describing Snape's tone and 
manner about 50% of the time. Now I know some fans wouldn't mind 
having Snape for a teacher, lover, etc., but I'm thinking if anyone 
talked to me that way 50% of the time, I'd say "you suck, go away." 
But Harry and Snape don't have that luxury.

Another teacher would probably use very similar language to describe 
the process of Occlumency to Harry, to train him on the skills he 
needs to learn. Without the sneering, coolness, danger, snarling, 
and contempt, perhaps Harry will hear what they have to say.

Jen