Teaching Styles and Motivation, (WAS: Mental Discipline in the WW )

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 130323

>>Bookworm:
>To be more specific, Betsy, Lupin doesn't give clear directions on 
how to "produce the mental state that allows one to conjure a 
Patronus."  But then, neither does Snape give clear directions on 
how to "empty the mind."<
<snip>

Betsy Hp:
That's *exactly* my point.  For that matter, Fake!Moody doesn't give 
any specific instructions on resisting the Imperius curse 
either: "...watch his {Harry's] eyes, that's where you see it..." 
(GoF scholastic hardback p.232)  There is never a description of a 
class where the reader comes away knowing exactly how to do the 
thing being asked of the student, IIRC.  So I think to judge Snape 
for not saying *how* to clear your mind is a non-starter.  How do 
you come up with a happy memory in the face of such overwhelming 
depression?  What exactly are the students suppposed to see in 
Harry's eyes?

>>Bookworm: 
>What Lupin does in give *positive encouragement*.<
<snip>

>>Jen:
>It's never the content of Snape's speech that's the problem,
it's simply how he says it. Your canon quotes from Snape's speech in
your original post left out many of the descriptors for how Snape
talks to Harry: "said contemptuously"; "said in a dangerous
voice"; "spat Snape"; "snarled Snape"; "said Snape coolly"; "said
Snape repressively"; "said Snape's cold voice"; "said Snape
sharply"; "said Snape savagely".....(OOTP, US, chap. 24, pps. 530-
537)<
<snip>

Betsy Hp:
The personal difficulty Harry has with Snape (exasperated by Sirius) 
*was* a factor.  I don't deny that.  Heck, even Dumbledore admits as 
much.  And yes, Lupin is the more positive teacher, and he would 
have been freer with the praise.  I doubt, however, that the basic 
instructions would have changed.  And Harry *has* managed to learn 
under Snape in the past.  So, *if Harry had wanted to learn* he 
would have learned under Snape.  Class content wasn't really the 
problem, IMO.

>>Bookworm:
>Now, having said all that, there is also a big difference in 
Harry's motivation in the different lessons.  Harry *wanted* to 
learn the Patronus – he asked Lupin (a teacher he liked) to teach 
him how to defend himself.  OTOH, Harry was *told* to study with 
Snape (a teacher his despises) to block thoughts that he really 
doesn't want to block.  Even if their teaching styles were the same 
and Harry liked both men, Lupin would have seemed to be a more 
successful teacher than Snape simply because Harry was motivated to 
learn the Patronus but not Occulumency.<

Betsy Hp:
Exactly!  If Harry had wanted to learn Occlumency, he'd have learned 
it.  Personally, I think even if Lupin had been the teacher instead 
of Snape, Harry would *still* have failed to block his dreams.  He 
may have felt a bit more guilty about not doing the work, but he 
would have followed the same path.  (And the drama would have gone 
*way* down.)

>>Jen:
<snip>
Another teacher would probably use very similar language to describe
the process of Occlumency to Harry, to train him on the skills he
needs to learn. Without the sneering, coolness, danger, snarling,
and contempt, perhaps Harry will hear what they have to say.<

Betsy Hp:
I think Snape gave Harry an excuse, actually.  Harry didn't want to 
stop the dreams and Snape provided a good scapegoat for not doing 
the work.  Because I think Harry *did* hear what Snape was telling 
him, he just chose not to believe him.

Betsy Hp