Dumbledore vs Fudge Chp 27 in OotP (long) (was:Re: Dumbledore the Strategist...)

[Chris]

No: HPFGUIDX 130796

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:
> Betsy Hp:
> I'm not seeing any clear-cut signal from Dumbledore to Kingsley.  
> Kingsley is a top-level Auror well used, I imagine, to thinking on 
> his feet.  Dumbledore *does* make clear that evidence of continuing 
> meetings would be a bad thing [615].  And he later praises Kingsley 
> for thinking quickly.
> 
> "He was remarkably quick on the uptake, modifying Miss Edgecombe's 
> memory like that while everyone was looking the other way -- thank 
> him for me, won't you Minerva?" [621]
> 
> It seems to me that Kingsley acted on his own.  Just as I'm sure he 
> maneuvered to be one of the Aurors accompanying Fudge to Hogwarts.  
> It's no secret to the Order that part of their battle, at this 
> point, is with the Ministry.

     But he does give Shacklebolt signals in his speech. Using the 
same edition of OoTP:

     "Well," said Dumbledore, surveying her with polite interest over 
the top of his interlocked fingers, "the certainly WOULD be, if they 
HAD continued after the decree came into effect. Do you have any 
evidence that these meetings continued?" My empasis was caps, in the 
text it was in italics. While DD was saying these words, Shacklebolt 
modified Marietta's memory. I respect Shacklebolt as an auror and a 
member of the Order, however it looks as if he is prompted here.

*snip* 
> But then Fudge points out that the group have named themselves 
> Dumbledore's Army. "Dumbledore reached out and took the piece of 
>parchment from Fudge. He gazed at the heading scribbled by Hermione 
>months before and for a moment seemed unable to speak.  Then he 
>looked up smiling." [618]
> 
> We see Dumbledore thinking here.  The DA used his name.  

   I don't think the slight pause is DD thinking how to respond. I 
honestly think he is moved that Harry and the group had chosen to 
call themselves "Dumbledore's Army." I think he gets slightly 
emotional at the thought, and has to pause.

*snip* 

 > >>Chris:
> >DD steers the entire conversation away from Harry, puts it on 
> himself, and then stuns everybody in the room with no more trouble 
> than popping a lemon drop into his mouth.<
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> True, we never see him sweat.  But that's because Dumbledore is a 
> bad-ass and Fudge is an incompetent.  No need for special powers 
for 
> Dumbledore to prevail.  A cool head and some quick thinking was 
more 
> than enough to rule the day.  (Though I would argue that things 
> became a bit more complicated than eating candy in there.  
> Dumbledore just knew enough to not allow his anxieties to show.)

    Do you really think he is anxious? I agree with your statement 
above that Dumbledore is a bad-ass. Most normal bad-asses are secure 
enough to think they can overcome any situation, but most can still 
get fearful in certain situations. I just don't see this with 
Dumbledore. He overcomes Fudge, Umbridge, and Dawlish (a trained 
auror) trashing his office in the process, and it seems like a walk 
in the park. I laughed out loud at the line: "Don't be silly 
Dawlish...I'm sure your an excellent auror...but if you attempt to-er-
bring me in by force, I will have to hurt you" (620) Does this sound 
like someone anxious to you?
    Also, look at the scene in the Veil room. Dumbledore strides in, 
and wheels the DE's in like fish on a line. Then there's the 
confrontation with LV. He acts facing the darkest Wizard in the world 
is nothing to him. Jo describes it as "...though he had not a fear in 
the world, as though nothing had happened to interrupt his stroll up 
the hall." (814) 
 
> >>Chris: 
> >I understand that people like DD, and I am one of those people. 
BUt 
> there are just too many circumstances where DD knows what is going 
> on before everyone else does.<
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> This was not one of those times.  Can you point out any others?  
> Times when not even a keen sense of observation or a little skill 
> with Legilimency would make a difference?

    I pointed one out in an earlier post in which the subject of 
Harry and Hermione going back in time was discussed (I can't remember 
which post, but it's the one with Buckbeak and the Time Turner.)

> <snip>


    I have to agree with you that DD has a keen and powerful mind, 
and that he is a great strategist. But there is something else going 
on with him that I can't put my finger on. Maybe it's just 
instinct...perhaps it is wishful thinking. We shall have to see.

Chris