Christian references (Was Re: Half-Blood Prince)

[elady25]

No: HPFGUIDX 126593


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at y...> wrote:
> 
> imamommy: 
> > 
> > Why do you suppose the HBP necessarily needs to be a type and 
> shadow of Christ?  > 

> Tonks now:  
> 
> The half-blood prince could be someone alive now or in the past.  
It could be a story about that person.  But the person that it refers 
> to must be a Christ figure because of the symbolism that runs 
> throughout the HP series.  We see so much symbolism of Christ in 
> Harry that it led me to think that Harry was the Christ until the 
> 5th book when he does in fact fall from grace and commits a sin.  

imamommy:
However, many scriptural and fictional characters are Christ symbols 
wtihout being perfect as he was.  The point is that they function in 
a way to remind us of Christ.  One example is King David, who is a 
type and shadow of Christ in some stories, but becomes a pretty good 
example of what pride and lust can drive us to in others. 
> 
> Sometimes when I think of the WW and the MW, I think of the 
> difference between those in heaven (angels) and those on earth 
> (humans) before the death, resurrection and ascension of XC.  Jean 
> Danielou, S.J., in his book "The Angels and Their Mission 
(According 
> to the Fathers of the Church)" speaks of some of the angels having 
> what might be called a pure-blood philosophy.  These angels did not 
> want to be servants to humans whom they felt were below them. In 
> this tradition Satan says "I will not pay homage to Adam" and when 
> Michael was about to force me to pay homage I said "I will not pay 
> homage to someone who is lower than I and who came after me." 
> This was the sin of Satan and his followers. They would serve God, 
> but not humans made in the image of God.
> 
> I should explain here that there was a hierarchy in heaven with all 
> pure blood angels, but different stations. As far as I can figure 
> out there were 3 levels. When Jesus assended he went above them all 
> to sit at the right hand of God. (As we see later in this post 
> Lucifer had a problem with this idea.)

imamommy:

This is a bit OT, but I have a different understanding of what 
happened in Heaven.  According to the doctrines of my preferred 
religion, we existed as spirit children in our Heavenly Father's 
prescence.  Christ, or Jehovah (of the OT) was the firstborn of these 
children.  Satan was another.  At some point there was a great 
council held, and Father presented his plan of happiness:  that we 
would come to earth to gain mortal bodies, and be tested and tried to 
see if we would be obedient to him.  We would have a veil across our 
minds so that we could not remember our premortal life.  We would 
have free agency to choose good or evil. Father knew he would need a 
Savior designated, so that if man fell the Savior could pay the price 
for our physical and spiritual death.  Then if we repented in the 
name of the Savior, we could return to Father's prescence.  Lucifer 
(Satan) had another plan.  He thought we sould come to earth and be 
constrained to only do the will of God, and he wanted all the glory 
to be given to him.  Jehovah accepted the mission to be the Savior 
and give the glory to Father.  Two-thirds of us chose to follow 
Father's plan and gain a mortal life; one-third followed Lucifer when 
he was cast down, and became his minions, nver to recieve a mortal 
body and therefore a chance at exaltation.  Also, Micheal and Jehovah 
were sent to form the earth.  The spirit that was Micheal became Adam 
in the garden.  So I vary somewhat in theology from what you regard 
as obvious, and I don't think there was any class distinction among 
angels; rather I believe that angels are either spirits who have not 
yet come to earth, or those who have already died.  

> When Jesus ascended back to heaven the angels that were not with 
him 
> on earth did not recognize him in his human form.  They had to ask 
> repeatedly "who is this?" before they opened the door.  They were 
> all shocked that God would bring his son (a half-blood Prince) back 
> into heaven in his *human* body.  Jesus is known as the Prince of 
> Peace.  And also after the resurrection and ascension, He is known 
> as the King of Heaven.

imamommy:

I don't know if you are going to accept this, but there is a 
scriptural reference in my religion that says "This is my work and my 
glory:  to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." 
(We use other texts in addition to the Bible) I would not think the 
angels were astounded that he was ascending, but I would venture that 
they were perhaps testing his knowledge before he returned to 
Father's prescence.  (I'm not sure of the reference you are citing.)
> 
> Thus it is Christ who is the half-blood Prince.  All of JKR's work 
> points to the Christ and the whole pure-blood clash concept has 
> already been played out in human history when God took human form 
> and became half God/half man in the person of Jesus.  What is 
> perplexing is just how this will be played out in the books.
> 
> Tonks_op

Tonks, thanks for making your case.  I'm not saying it can't be.  I'm 
just saying it's not obvious in my mind that it has to be.  Granted, 
JKR's religious background may be more in keeping with yours, but 
I've been amazed at how many time things have jumped out at me as 
particular to my faith (the veil between this world and the next, for 
example).  And I would think to someone without a Christian 
background at all, they would not be as quick to accept the theory.  
There is a lot of Christian symbolism, but whether intentional or not 
I cannot say.  As I've said before, I think the best stories touch a 
wide audience because they testify of Truth, real truth, that touches 
our spirits no matter who we are.  And that's why we all love HP.

imamommy