A question on Sirius and his vault - Hagrid, Molly, Harry, Goblins

[finwitch]

No: HPFGUIDX 126860


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:

> As to Hagrid, remember that Harry was with Hagrid at the time, and
> Hagrid also had the key to the vault, these factors surely carried
> some weight with the Goblin banker.
> 
> More significant is the fact the Molly Weasley has accessed Harry's
> bank vault several times, most of those times with Harry's implied
> permission, but none that I can recall in which Harry gave his direct
> expressed or written permission. 

Finwitch:

Well, the text doesn't *say* Harry gave Molly a letter, his key or
anything like that, but that may just have been cut off. (You know,
like not describing Harry using a toilet, just say that he was let out
of his prisonlike bedroom twice a day to do so...)

Steve:

--I have always speculated that one of the
> reasons the Goblins are so successfull as bankers is because they have
>  a kind of magical sixth sense that allows them to detect the validity
> of a request to accesss a bank vault. So, they could sense that both
> Sirius's and Molly's request were valid authorized request to access
> and remove gold from a given bank vault. 
> 
> For the record, here is what Sirius actually said-
> - - - PoA, Am Ed, Pb, pg 433 - - -
> Crookshanks took the order to the Owl Office for me. I used /your
> name/ but told them to take the gold from my own Gringotts vault.
> - - - end quote - - - 
> 
> 'I used your name...', that could mean that the order said, send the
> order to Harry Potter, but I'm paying (vault 711). The same as if you
> credit-card mail-ordered a birthday present for someone and had it
> sent directly to their house; ordered by one person, delivered to
> another. 
> 
> Alternately, it could imply some financial association between Harry
> and Sirius. It could imply that Harry's /name/ somehow has the
> authority to access Sirius's bank vault; perhaps by virtue of Sirius
> being his Godfather. Again, we could be faced with the Goblin's
> magical /validation/ that confirmed that Harry was indeed authorized
> to transfer gold from that numbered vault.
> 
> There could be some significants in this last possiblility regarding
> the disposition of the Black Estate. It might imply that long ago,
> some connection had been made between Harry and Sirius. Perhaps, Harry
> is already authorized to control or at least gain access to the Black
> Family money, or perhaps just Sirius's personal money.
> 
> Last note, if Sirius signed the mail-order form, then his signature
> could have been sufficient verification to authorize the transfer of
> money to the Quidditch supply company. But wouldn't that mean that
> whoever processed the order at the Quidditch supply company would have
> seen Sirius Black's signature? 
> 
> I guess it's possible that they get so many orders that they don't
> really look at the names, they simply place the order, and send the
> order form off to the bank to get the gold transferred. Once they have
> verification of transfer, they ship the broom off to the specified
> delivery address. When you process a lot of paperwork like that
> sometimes you can see without really seeing.

Finwitch:

I agree on the Goblins magically telling if you're authorised to
access a vault and I also believe that they'd let any thief to
suffocate or face a dragon or whatever... They don't call wizard law
to deal with them - no, Goblins do it themselves (as Hagrid put it:
'yeh'd be mad to try and rob it'). 

As for others: Harry's name may be a password verifying the withdrawal
- or Harry might be, as Sirius godson and heir, authorised to make
withdrawal - or it was a simple mailorder.

As to not noticing the signature - yes, well - the dealer not looking
carefully, it was for the Goblins to do so... and even if someone did
think the signature seemed to say Sirius Black (some people have
really messy signatures!) who would think that an escaped convict, a
murderer about to slay Harry Potter, would be mail-ordering a Firebolt
to Harry as a christmas present? I think that if someone did notice
the signature, he either didn't believe it (someone playing a prank) -
or figured that SB must be innocent if he's doing something nice like
that... either way, he wouldn't have contacted any aurors.. (and lose
a business oppurtunity on a very expensive Firebolt? Think not) and,
the order came by a post owl so such order would not even help them
out at all...

But I do like to believe that Sirius made Harry some sort of co-user
of his Vault upon being made his Godfather/Harry's birth. James and
Lily would have known that. After all, they both trusted Sirius (James
insisted on Sirius being the SK, did he not?), even after it was clear
that someone close to him was a traitor. I'd find it hard to believe
that someone, making my child a co-user of his bank-Vault, would be
involved in a plot to lead to the child's death...
(and of course, none but the Goblins, Potters and Sirius knew of that
arrangement... Harry doesn't know, but Sirius DID tell Harry his
Vault-number!)

Finwitch