Self-taught Occlumency? I think not

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 126904


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nrenka" <nrenka at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > It also never seems to occur to Harry that with the Room of 
> > Requirement at his disposal and Hermione to coach him, he could have 
> > learned  OWL potion making, or even Occlumency, without Snape.
> 
> Potion making less curious, but Occlumency a very curious comment, 
> Pippin.  Do you have any canon that supports the idea that it would be 
> learnable for Harry without an experienced teacher?  After all, 
> Hermione never mentions books on Occlumency in the library that could 
> be used to help Harry--which, given her general inclinations for 
> looking things up and reliability in finding them, can in this 
> situation be taken as an indication that there weren't any.

Pippin:

 Great though Snape's knowledge be, as Gandalf would say, it must have a source, 
which isn't necessarily in the library, even if Hermione has access to the restricted 
section. What about Snape's office, or Dumbledore's? (People will keep giving him 
books.)  Can the ROR draw from outside Hogwarts? Perhaps from under the drawing 
room floor in Malfoy Manor? 

Point is, Harry didn't try, didn't ask. It's canon that there is writing on Imperius 
resistance, which Snape says requires similar technique. Harry hasn't read 
those either, AFAWK, though Snape probably thinks he has. It was an assignment in 
fourth year DADA. (I don't have my books with me for the reference.)

Nora:
> 
> As such, it seems to really require a *partner* who knows Legilimency 
> to learn, as it needs that person as both the guider and tester.  
> Harry and Hermione and a non-existent book would be rather like two 
> kids a and "Teach Yourself Karate" video.  Hint: they're not going to 
> get very far.

Pippin:
As far as the 'tester' goes, Harry had Voldemort. And while ordinary kids probably 
couldn't learn karate that way, motivated, talented people can learn a surprising 
amount by unorthodox means. I forget the name of the Japanese figure skating 
champion who is supposed to have learned by watching  TV.  


Of course Harry might have only slight abilities as an occlumens, but in that case he 
was never going to be good enough to resist Voldy anyway.

I'd be surprised if JKR thinks there is only one right way to learn anything-- do you 
see canon for that?

Pippin
interested to hear Nora's theory on the proper teaching of Occlumency. And 
wondering if Nora thinks that  Snape was taught that way, and if not, why Snape 
would want to experiment with an untried method when so much was at stake