Religion in US, UK, Hogwarts School...

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 128585

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "festuco" <vuurdame at x> wrote:
> > Pippin:
> > Because we don't know what Sirius's frame of reference is, 
> > we don't know whether he was alluding to the lines, "Remember 
> > Christ our Savior was born on Christmas Day" or not. 
> 
> Rebecca <rsteph1981 at y...>:
> > I have to disagree.  I think that, though it's not directly 
> > stated, that we the audience are absolutely meant to interpret
> > it that way and that to try to interpret it any other way is 
> > really, really stretching.
 
Gerry:
> Why? Imagine you're a Thai Buddhist, with no idea about Christianity
> at all, or an Indonesian Muslim, or an Israeli Jew. Why would it be
> stretching to imagine that the audience is not meant to pick up the
> Christian reference? Or do you truly suspect that the reference to
> this song is sowing the seeds of Christianity in the reader? 
> 
> Or that you are a non-English speaker. If your idea is correct, a
> translator has no other choice than pick up a nation Christmas Carol
> with the same kind of reference. Not only here, but in all kinds of
> other things as well. Otherwise the allegory would be ruined. Does
> anybody know if JKR judges translations on the right use of 
Christian
> imagery? 

Geoff:
Bear in mind though, that when JKR began to write the books, she did 
not foresee the impact and popularity they would have. I doubt 
whether she considered them being read widely beyond a UK-based 
audience - probably a younger one as well who would recognise these 
tings from their own cultural background.

Returning to a point made recently about Harry being Christ, I have 
written to the group on several occasions on this topic over the last 
year or more. I have put together some pieces of previous postings 
and have edited them together in the hope that they might be of value 
to the discussion.

So he goes (again!);

I have said in the past that although HP is not overtly Christian, it 
reflects the views of its author, as did Tolkien's work; I do not 
necessarily look for direct comparisons to Christian teaching but 
feel that the mores expressed in the books will echo those views.

This raises the whole question of what do we read into the stories of 
Harry Potter? Why did JKR write them? For her own satisfaction? 
Probably. To give pleasure to millions of people? In the event also 
probably. To be read at different levels of understanding. Yes - I 
might say in passing that one of my favourite books if "Winnie the 
Pooh" which has two distinct levels of understanding at least. Which 
then leads to the next thought. Are they books for children? Yes, but 
not children alone; for children at heart in the best meaning of 
this. Are they textbooks for faith to proselytise? No. There are 
signposts and pointers for those who look but I do not believe that 
they have been written deliberately to fit a pattern imposed by 
someone other than the author.

There are three major series of books which are often discussed here 
on this forum, either directly or indirectly: Harry Potter, the 
Narnia books or Lord of the Rings.

All these have been written by authors who profess to be Christians. 
The only allegorical books here are C.S.Lewis' series and he made no 
secret of the fact that they were intended as such. "The Lion, the 
Witch and the Wardrobe" is an overt allegory of the Christian story; 
Aslan is the son of the great Emperor over sea and represents Christ.

Both JK Rowling and Tolkien have created universes which are not 
overtly Christian but which, through the beliefs of their writers 
have echoes of Christianity in their fabric. These books are 
not "message" books but labours of love. They are not mass produced 
books written to a template; I could name authors who have turned out 
massive numbers of books to very similar patterns which do not 
reflect any sort of ethical system. 

These three authors have written books which are timeless 
and "thumping good stories" which will continue to enthral readers of 
all ages in the future; they pit goodness against evil not in a black 
versus white scenario where everything is a foregone conclusion but 
with shades of grey which cast shadows and doubts on the final 
success of good. This is drawn from their own perception of good and 
evil which I believe is rooted in their faith.

I have remarked on occasions before that I do not see JKR postulating 
a story line in which Harry is a Christ figure because that would fly 
in the face of her belief. Speaking as a Christian, he cannot be such 
a figure because my belief accepts Christ as God in human form, 
sinless, perfect so as to be able to die for the sins of the world in 
his human form. I see Harry as an everyman figure echoing our own 
journeys through life. 

I read the books firstly for pleasure; I like Harry. I see myself as 
I was many years ago, brash, impulsive, questioning, uncertain and 
certain that everything is black or white. The greys have come with 
age. I do not read them a priori in order to cross intellectual 
swords with others on the group. That is a spin off which can lead us 
into over-analysis and theorising which only drains the first fresh 
enjoyment of each book which we experienced as we came to it.