Hagrid's morality (wasRe: Moral messages (and Hagrid)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 128744

>>Valky:
<snip>
>For the record I think that this particular scene can hardly 
undermine the moral message of the books, when it is in context a no 
so bright but bighearted (and admittedly burly) oaf of a man 
standing for the defense of an oppressed and overwhelmed innocent 
against his torturers of a decade of his life.<
<snip>

Betsy:
Except that in order to see Hagrid's attack on Dudley the way you 
do, Valky, we must take it *out* of context.  If we put it back into 
the surrounding scene Hagrid does not come out well at all, I'm 
afraid.

" 'I AM NOT PAYING FOR SOME CRACKPOT OLD FOOL TO TEACH HIM MAGIC 
TRICKS!' yelled Uncle Vernon.
"But he had finally gone too far.  Hagrid seized his umbrella and 
whirled it over his head, 'NEVER -' he thundered, '- INSULT - ALBUS -
 DUMBLEDORE - IN - FRONT - OF - ME!'
"He brought the umbrella swishing down through the air to point at 
Dudley - there was a flash of violet light, a sound like a 
firecracker, a sharp squeal, and the next second, Dudley was dancing 
on the spot with his hands clasped over his fat bottom, howling in 
pain." (SS paperback ed. p. 59)

So we have a man verbally attack the wizard Hagrid feels a strong 
allegiance to, and in retaliation Hagrid hits the man's son with a 
painful and irreversable spell.  Frankly, I don't think a Death 
Eater would have handled things much differently.  Especially when 
you consider that Hagrid's spell went wrong.  He'd meant to turn 
Dudley into a pig, which would have been quite equivilent to killing 
the boy.  A muggle hospital was able to surgically remove the tail - 
I doubt they could have done anything to turn Dudley back into a 
boy.  (I always found it interesting that the movie version of this 
scene has Dudley trying to steal some of Harry's cake and bringing 
down Hagrid's wrath that way.  Perhaps the directer felt an 
unprovoked attack on an already cowering child would not be helpful 
in establishing Hagrid as one of the good guys?) 

>>Alla:
>Well, I speculated once that Hagrid indeed saw what Dudley did to 
Harry, because for one reason or another he was substituting for 
Arabella on her watch. That is why he IS so angry towards Dudley - 
you know, after maybe witnessing "Harry hunting", or something like 
that.<

Betsy:
Except that there's nothing previous to the scene or following the 
scene to suggest that Hagrid knows *anything* of the treatment Harry 
has recieved at the hands of the Dursleys, nor how Dudley treats 
Harry.  His very shock that Harry knows nothing about his parents or 
Hogwarts implies the very opposite.  JKR is too good at giving tons 
of information in a very short amount of space to not give us a 
tangible hint that Hagrid is aware of Dudley's treatment of Harry.  
The fact that she gives us nothing suggests to me that it's because 
there's nothing there to give.

>>Alla: 
>It IS only speculation on my part, nothing more and most likely 
wrong, but that is what I think. If it is indeed true, than I not 
only find Hagrid's reaction to be excusable, but perfectly 
understandable, since Dudley and the gang indeed caused Harry a lot 
of grief over those ten years.<

Betsy:
But if Hagrid *is* unaware of Dudley's bullying of Harry (which per 
canon seems to be the case) then his behavior really has *no* 
excuse.  Which raises an interesting question: why did JKR have one 
of her main good characters, our inductor to the WW no less, act in 
such a ruthless manner?  I don't buy the idea that JKR doesn't 
realize that Hagrid is being cruel here.  Later on she has him tell 
Harry the out and out lie that all bad wizards are Slytherins.  And 
it's Hagrid's greed and drunkenness that puts the Stone at risk.  
(Not to mention Hagrid nearly getting Harry chucked out of Hogwarts 
all together because of Norbert.)  I think JKR is fully aware of the 
flaws she's piling on to this character.  However, I don't think 
Hagrid is ESE.  There's too much good stuff piled on the other side 
of the scale.  Which leaves me still wondering why JKR chose to have 
Hagrid act in such a manner.

>>Catkind:
<snip>
>To be honest, the scene made me dislike Hagrid instinctively when I 
first read it. The rest is rationalization. 
<snip>
>I rather had the impression we were supposed to be cheering him on.<
<snip>

Betsy:
Were we?  I wonder about that.  This scene took me aback too. (Part 
of the reason the movie scene stood out to me was that I went into 
the theater wondering how that scene would play to the audience, 
would folks cheer it on. I was a bit disappointed that the scene was 
so changed as to completely bypass the issue.)  Perhaps children 
were meant to cheer for Hagrid, but I can't imagine that JKR didn't 
fully understand that some folks would be find the obviously 
unprovoked attack a little off-putting. (I'd be interested in 
hearing from parents how their kids took that scene.) 

I do like Hagrid.  I think he's wonderful to Harry (the photo album 
of Harry's parents totally melted my heart) and I *do* think he's 
fully loyal to Dumbledore.  But he's definitely a flawed character 
that does not provide reliable truths and does not always choose the 
correct course of action. Hagrid should be treated with caution.

Betsy