What exactly did Snape do in OOTP?

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 129301

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Kathryn Jones <kjones at t...> wrote:
> > bboyminn:
> >
> > Well, there is much and I mean MUCH speculation on this, but the 
> > only thing I've been able to come up with is that Snape is a 
> > double agent. Each side thinks Snape is spying for them.
 
> KJ:
> 
> .. this theory ..., I don't feel comfortable  with it. The biggest 
> danger for a double agent is the number of people who know about it. 
> The fact that he was a spy was brought out in public, presumably at 
> his own trial, and again at the trial of the other DE. ... Then 
> there is the fact that Snape has remained with Dumbledore for the 
>past years while Voldemort was Vapormort.


bboyminn:

I think you missed the point. Snape in a sense is a double-double
agent. Voldemort sent Snape to Dumbledore as a double agent,
Dumbledore turned around and sent Snape back Voldemort as a double
agent; hence, double-double agent. 

Voldemort sent Snape to Dumbledore to spy on Dumbledore, now how he
was able to do that is by Snape offering to Spy on Voldemort for
Dumbledore. That's how Snape initially gained Dumbledore's trust.

Any sign of loyalty to Dumbledore is irrelvant because that is exactly
what a spy's job is. To spy on Dumbledore, Snape must constantly
appear loyal to Dumbledore. Voldemort expects and accepts this as part
of the spy game. Revealing that Snape was spying against Voldemort is
still not a problem, because that is exactly how Snape got on
Dumbledore's good side in the first place. Again, Voldemort expects
and accepts this as part of the spy game.

Further, Dumbledore expect and accepts exactly the same thing. Behind
the scenes, Dumbledore expect and accepts that Snape will appear to
despise Dumbledore and will display loyalty to Voldemort. 

Even further, each side can expect as part of the spy game, that Snape
will betray them. Ideally, it will be an orchestrated betrayal.
Dumbledore will send Snape to Voldemort with what appears to be vital
inside information. Voldemort will turn around and send Snape back to
Dumbledore with what appears to be vital DE information. Both sides
are using Snape as a chess piece to gain inside information while at
the same time disseminating misinformation.

Displays of loyalty to either side by Snape mean nothing, because
those displays of loyalty are exactly what the other side expects
Snape to do.

The Philosopher's Stone and Quirrel are also irrelevant because
Voldemort never revealed himself to Snape. Snape had no way of knowing
he was working against Voldemort, so there is no way Voldemort can
consider that a betrayal; annoying, irritating, infuriating - yes, but
not a betrayal.

Again, as a spy for Voldemort, it's Snape's job to appear loyal to
Dumbledore; Snape was just doing his job.

Again, again, Snape being revealed as a Spy for the good side at
Karkaroff's hearing doesn't matter, because once again, Voldemort
already knows Snape is pretending to be a spy for the good side. 

The free DE's at the time would not likely do anything about it if
they found out, because they would not want to put there barely won
freedom at risk. Voldemort was gone, they all had nice normal
prosperous lives and were safely out of jail, and I'm sure that's
exactly how they wanted to keep it. 

Even if they questioned Snape, all Snape would have to do is tell them
that he was pretending to be a spy for the good side while secretly
working for Voldemort, and if he continued to display and profess
pro-Voldemort pro-Pureblood sentiment, they would have no reason to
doubt him.

It's likely that Malfoy being one of the few DE's with a shread of
intelligence was one of the few upper level DE that was aware of
Voldemort's plan and of what Snape was doing. So, to some extent,
Malfoy would have kept other more skeptical people off Snape's back.


> KJ continues:
>
>  ... at Grimmauld Place ... none of the Order fears or distrusts 
> Snape.  We are given to believe that Moody does, ...edited...

> 
> I can't think of any reason that would explain his showing his Dark 
> Mark to the Minister if he was still acting as a spy.  ...edited...
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> These are  a few of the things that bother me, logically speaking, 
> about the spy-double- spy theory.  Feel free to refute or explain
> these oddities, but please don't expect me to believe that Snape 
> just explained everything away and Voldemort just believed him. He 
> seemed to know quite well what the other DE were doing in his 
> absence.
> 
> Sorry for the long post.
> 
> KJ

bboyminn:

While Snape plays the role of Double-double agent or triple agent or
whatever the heck it adds up to, we as outside observers and because
of Dumbledore's genuine trust for Snape are lead to believe that
Snape's true allegiance is to the good side. But again, in his role of
double-double agent, the good side expects Snape to betray them and
show loyalty to Voldemort as I explained above. It's all part of the
spy game. DISPLAYS of loyalty mean nothing, again, they are part of
the game.

In fact, given that Voldemort expects Snape to display loyalty to
Dumbledore, I do expect you to believe that Snape went to Voldemort,
most likely through Malfoy, and explained that he was still loyal to
Voldemort and willing to continue to spy for him. That doesn't mean
that Voldemort didn't give Snape a very PAINFUL reminder of the price
of true betrayal. It is the very fact that Voldemort sent Snape to
Dumbledore as a spy that now allows Snape to come back to Voldemort.
That is at the very heart of my position. So far, in Voldemort's eyes,
Snape has just been doing his job.

My main point is that by being a double-double agent (or whatever)
Snape's APPARENT loyalties are meaningless because they are expected
as part of the game. It's this presents of /apparent/ loyalties and
the ambiguity of true loyalties that allows Snape to be a spy. Once
again, we can give no weight to Snape's displays of loyalty to either
side because that is how the game is played.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Steve/bboyminn