What exactly did Snape do in OOTP?
kgpopp
kgpopp at yahoo.com
Sun May 22 17:43:29 UTC 2005
No: HPFGUIDX 129327
> bboyminn:
>
> I think you missed the point. Snape in a sense is a double-double
> agent. Voldemort sent Snape to Dumbledore as a double agent,
> Dumbledore turned around and sent Snape back Voldemort as a double
> agent; hence, double-double agent.
>
> Voldemort sent Snape to Dumbledore to spy on Dumbledore, now how he
> was able to do that is by Snape offering to Spy on Voldemort for
> Dumbledore. That's how Snape initially gained Dumbledore's trust.
>
> Any sign of loyalty to Dumbledore is irrelvant because that is
> exactly what a spy's job is. To spy on Dumbledore, Snape must
> constantly appear loyal to Dumbledore. Voldemort expects and
> accepts this as part of the spy game. Revealing that Snape was
> spying gainst Voldemort is still not a problem, because that is
> exactly how Snape got on Dumbledore's good side in the first place.
<Snip>
> Displays of loyalty to either side by Snape mean nothing, because
> those displays of loyalty are exactly what the other side expects
> Snape to do.
Kristen:
Steve Per usual your post has me thinking; and agree with the logic
of you argument for Snape's behavior as a double agent/triple agent.
However, it is based on very big assumption that Voldemort sent Snape
to spy on Dumbledore. Since there is no canon to reference it
leaves me wondering a few things
1. What reason could Voldemort have told Double!Agent!Snape to give
to Dumbledore, to make DD believe that Snape had turned or could be
trusted?
2. Did Snape take the double agent assignment planning to betray the
Dark lord or did something happen later that turned him? And what
made him turn.
3. And of course the thing we all wonder how did Snape convince
Dumbledore that he can be trusted? And Can he?
4. And last but not least does Voldemort still think Snape is playing
double agent and if so why does Voldemort still trust Snape?
To my 1st and 2nd questions I have no clue and am still thinking up
options. I think I've seen some speculation that maybe Snape's
family was hurt which seems plausible. I've love some speculation
on your part or that of anyone else's for that matter.
As to the 3rd, not sure what Snape could have said or done to
convince Dumbledore but I do think Snape is against Voldemort. Not
sure if it because I just don't want Dumbledore to have made that big
error in judgment; or because I like to think Snape is the complex
charter that illustrates that there are degrees of good and bad.
As to the last question I have my doubts that Voldemort still trust
Snape. Note: I don't disagree with your analysis about the
Philosopher's stone and Karkaroff's hearing.
> The Philosopher's Stone and Quirrel are also irrelevant because
> Voldemort never revealed himself to Snape. Snape had no way of
> knowing he was working against Voldemort, so there is no way
> Voldemort can consider that a betrayal; annoying, irritating,
> infuriating - yes, but not a betrayal.
<Snip>
> Again, again, Snape being revealed as a Spy for the good side at
> Karkaroff's hearing doesn't matter, because once again, Voldemort
> already knows Snape is pretending to be a spy for the good side.
<Snip>
Kristen Again:
However, there are 2 things that make me think that if Snape was
playing a triple agent the jig is up:
1. Voldemort tortured and controlled Barty Crouch Sr. for several
months. I think that somewhere in that time Barty would have shared
with Voldemort what ever testimony Dumbledore gave on Snape. Now I
know what you're thinking here
That if Snape is a double agent then
this was part of the act so Voldemort would not care. But what if
Dumbledore had to share the real reason Snape turned not the fake
reason (Assuming they are different).
2. When Voldemort comebacks and addresses the DE, there is a spot in
the circle where 6 are missing and he says " And here we have six
missing Death Eaters
three dead in my service. One too cowardly to
return he will pay. One who I believe has left me forever
he will
be killed, of course
and one, who remains my most faithful servant,
and who has already reentered my service."
I assume the coward is Karkaroff', the 1 who left is Snape, and the
faithful servant is Barty Crouch Jr. Now it could be that Voldemort
thinks Snape is the coward and Karkaroff the one who left. But if
Voldemort still trust Snape and still thinks he is a double agent
why would he call him a coward? Note: I see no way for Barty Jr.
to be the coward or the one who left, so it highly unlikely Snape is
the most faithful servant.
So if Snape is double/triple agent man
. that leaves me wondering is
Voldemort playing Snape?
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