Rampant Ingratitude, was Re:Lusting After Snape

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 129404

>>Amandageist:
>Clearly you have a strong opinion, and both of us can make 
entertaining analogies to illustrate points, but I ask again: may I 
have canon points or examples to for the analogies to illustrate?<

>>Amiable Dorsai: 
>OK, let's get a bit more concrete:  Snape's attempt at teaching 
Harry Occlumency left Harry more open to Voldemort than he was 
before.  Bad teaching.<

Betsy:
If true, not only bad teaching, but an act of betrayal. Do you have 
canon to prove that specifically Snape's teaching method (rather 
than say, Harry's curiosity) left Harry more open to the DoM 
dreams?  Harry has his opinions, yes.  But is his opinion ever 
confirmed?

>>Amiable Dorsai: 
>Snape took points from Harry because another student--Neville--made 
an error in his potion.  This in a classroom where talking is not 
permitted, so Harry could not have helped Neville without breaking 
the rules in any case.<

Betsy:
Snape was being hard on Harry here, IMO.  But since the students 
were working in pairs, I find it hard to believe there wasn't a 
certain amount of quiet murmuring going on.  (And the points were 
taking from Gryffindor - not Harry personally.  So it could be 
argued that the points would have been lost regardless, and Snape 
just took the opportunity to make another dig at Harry.)

>>Amiable Dorsai:
>In another incident, he took house points because a student 
(Hermione) *did* help Neville fix a mistake in a potion. This may 
teach something, but it certainly isn't Potions.<

Betsy:
In *this* case, Neville had been assigned to do the potion *on his 
own*.  Hermione, in this case, was cheating.  She's lucky she and 
Neville didn't get expelled.  (And as Hermione made sure that 
Neville didn't actually learn Potions, might it not be argued that 
Snape hopefully taught them a small amount of ethics?)

>>Amiable Dorsai: 
>Snape threatened to illegally dose Harry with Veritaserum for no 
purpose other than to expose schoolboy misdemeanors--providing a 
poor example of acceptable behavior to a student in his charge.<

Betsy:
I don't have my books, but wasn't this when Snape suspected Harry of 
stealing (again) from his private Potions stores?  (Hardly 
a "schoolboy misdemeanor".)  Plus, I would add that Snape never 
actually dosed Harry with the Veritaserum, and later he *prevents* 
Harry from being dosed with Veritaserum.  Shouldn't actions speak 
louder than words?

>>Amiable Dorsai: 
>Snape failed to render aid to Hermione when she was accidentally 
hexed, choosing to insult her appearance rather than send her to the 
hospital wing.  I note that he did send a Pureblood student to see 
Madam Pomphrey after the same incident, so I suppose a lesson of 
some sort was taught.<

Betsy:
Snape doesn't take points from Hermione for going to the hospital 
wing (again, actions over words), and he reacts to her injuries 
exactly the same way he reacted to another Gryffindor hexed by a 
Slytherin (was it Katie who ended up with an eyebrow forest?).  What 
Snape did was refuse to see an injury and thereby avoid taking 
points from Slytherin.  He *does* manage to anger Ron and Harry 
enough that they give him an opportunity to take points from 
Gryffindor (Snape is clever like that).  And you'll notice that 
Pureblood Ron gets disciplined, so I don't think a blood prejuidice 
is really going to fly.  (Does he ever pick on Dean?)

>>Amiable Dorsai: 
>Shall I continue?<

Betsy:
You can, if you want, but as Amiabledorsai has already pointed out, 
Snape and his teaching abilities are a controversial subject.  
(*Snape* is a controversial subject.)  I've poured over the books 
many a time to show why I think he's an excellent teacher.  Others 
have poured over the books to show the reverse.  I think the proof 
is in the pudding (his high pass rate, etc.); others think the proof 
is in his sometimes cruel wit (Neville's nerves).  About all either 
side has managed to show to the other side is that nothing is really 
clearcut when it comes to our Professor Snape.  (Okay, *I* think 
it's clearcut, but since folks *still* want to argue... <that was a 
joke, meant to induce snorts of laughter and/or disbelief, please 
don't take offense>)

Betsy