Rampant Ingratitude, was Re:Lusting After Snape

[amiabledorsai]

No: HPFGUIDX 129408

This is the last reply I'll make today, I have to get some actual work
done at some point. :-)

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03"
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:

> >>Amiable Dorsai: 
> >OK, let's get a bit more concrete:  Snape's attempt at teaching 
> Harry Occlumency left Harry more open to Voldemort than he was 
> before.  Bad teaching.<
> 
> Betsy:
> If true, not only bad teaching, but an act of betrayal. Do you have 
> canon to prove that specifically Snape's teaching method (rather 
> than say, Harry's curiosity) left Harry more open to the DoM 
> dreams?  Harry has his opinions, yes.  But is his opinion ever 
> confirmed?

Well, I don't know who would be a better authority than the person it
was actually happening to.

And it is an established fact that Snape terminated the lessons.

> >>Amiable Dorsai: 
> >Snape took points from Harry because another st
udent--Neville--made 
> an error in his potion.  This in a classroom where talking is not 
> permitted, so Harry could not have helped Neville without breaking 
> the rules in any case.<
> 
> Betsy:
> Snape was being hard on Harry here, IMO.  But since the students 
> were working in pairs, I find it hard to believe there wasn't a 
> certain amount of quiet murmuring going on.  

Harry was not Neville's lab partner.  He had no business (or so, I'm
sure, Snape would have claimed, had Harry actually helped him) paying
attention to Neville's cauldron.

(And the points were 
> taking from Gryffindor - not Harry personally.  So it could be 
> argued that the points would have been lost regardless, and Snape 
> just took the opportunity to make another dig at Harry.)

Pulling another shovelful out of his own grave.  This is your idea of
good teaching?

This is precisely the sort of behavior, carried on incessantly for
4-1/2 years, that made it impossible for Harry to trust Snape.

> >>Amiable Dorsai:
> >In another incident, he took house points because a student 
> (Hermione) *did* help Neville fix a mistake in a potion. This may 
> teach something, but it certainly isn't Potions.<
> 
> Betsy:
> In *this* case, Neville had been assigned to do the potion *on his 
> own*.  Hermione, in this case, was cheating.  She's lucky she and 
> Neville didn't get expelled.  (And as Hermione made sure that 
> Neville didn't actually learn Potions, might it not be argued that 
> Snape hopefully taught them a small amount of ethics?)

No difference between the two cases--Neville was no more told to do it
"on his own" in this instance than in the other, nor, if we are to
engage in the sort of logic chopping you claim Snape is playing at,
did he tell Hermione not to help him--"I don't remember asking you to
show off, Miss Granger,"-- was all he said.  Hermione didn't show off;
she helped Neville quietly and without drawing attention to herself.
> 
> >>Amiable Dorsai: 
> >Snape threatened to illegally dose Harry with Veritaserum for no 
> purpose other than to expose schoolboy misdemeanors--providing a 
> poor example of acceptable behavior to a student in his charge.<
> 
> Betsy:
> I don't have my books, but wasn't this when Snape suspected Harry
of 
> stealing (again) from his private Potions stores?  (Hardly 
> a "schoolboy misdemeanor".)  Plus, I would add that Snape never 
> actually dosed Harry with the Veritaserum, and later he *prevents* 
> Harry from being dosed with Veritaserum.  Shouldn't actions speak 
> louder than words?

Yep.  In this case his action was implying to a student in his charge
that it was OK to break the law for trivial purposes.
 
> >>Amiable Dorsai: 
> >Snape failed to render aid to Hermione when she was accidentally 
> hexed, choosing to insult her appearance rather than send her to
the 
> hospital wing.  I note that he did send a Pureblood student to see 
> Madam Pomphrey after the same incident, so I suppose a lesson of 
> some sort was taught.<
> 
> Betsy:
> Snape doesn't take points from Hermione for going to the hospital 
> wing (again, actions over words), and he reacts to her injuries 
> exactly the same way he reacted to another Gryffindor hexed by a 
> Slytherin (was it Katie who ended up with an eyebrow forest?). 
What 
> Snape did was refuse to see an injury and thereby avoid taking 
> points from Slytherin.  He *does* manage to anger Ron and Harry 
> enough that they give him an opportunity to take points from 
> Gryffindor (Snape is clever like that). 

Clever indeed.  He could have handed out punishment for the original
offense--using magic in the hallways--but that would have required him
to punish Draco as well.

> And you'll notice that 
> Pureblood Ron gets disciplined, so I don't think a blood prejuidice 
> is really going to fly.  (Does he ever pick on Dean?)

Dunno about Dean, but Ron is a blood traitor from a family of blood
traitors.  The man who once called Lily Evans a "mudblood" might find
that an interesting distinction.

Amiable Dorsai