House Elves and justice, etc

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 129757

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "kgpopp" <kgpopp at y...> wrote:
> 
> ...huge snip...
>
> Kristen again
> 
> I actually kinda agree with your read on Winky. I don't think she 
> saw value in herself, but rather as you suggest she got her self 
> worth from the value Mr. Crouch placed on her. And while I fear that 
> many house elves would feel the same Dobby and even dreadful 
> Kreacher give me hope that the house elves can start to value 
> themselves.

bboyminn:

Excellent points being made by both sides. However, at this point I'm
going to jump off on a side tangent that I touched on before.

There is a big difference, as you both indicated, between the
circumstance that freed Winky and those that freed Dobby. 

The point I made earlier was that Dobby wasn't freed because he failed
to adequately or appropriately serve his master. In fact, Dobby's
master did not want him to leave his service. Since Dobby was freed by
a technicality, he left his service with his dignity and honor intact;
he had not failed as an elf.

Winky on the other hand, was indeed freed for failure of service. She
disobeyed her master which, without the back story, seemed extremely
harsh to Hermione, but Winky's action were potentially disasterous to
Crouch. 

If the full backstory had been disclosed, Crouch's career would have
been over, and HE would have been in disgrace. So, again, the point is
that Winky failed as a house-elf, and in having her service
terminated, she not only disgraced herself, and her own elfin family,
but her entire race. In her mind, I speculate that she has violated
her core nature, and further been dishonorably discharged from a
family that her own elfin family has served for generations. That
dishonor and disgrace goes a long way toward explaining Winky's response.

These circumstances in the book are one of the reasons I put so much
emphasis on Elfin Honor as being one of the binding forces at play.
The core nature of elves combined with this apparent degree of deep
seated sense of honor and duty is an extremely powerful force spanning
all of elfin history; it should not be underestimated.

Let's look at an alternate scenerio which I think ties in somewhat to
the more immediate discussion. Let's say Mr. Crouch casually threw a
sock aside and it landed in Winky's arms, thereby closely duplicating
the circumstances under which Dobby was freed. 

I think(I speculate) that after an intial very awkward moment, Winky
would have simply said, that's OK, I know you didn't mean to free me,
so I'll just re-enter your service and we'll go on from there. Having
clothes given to her in this accidental circumstance doesn't FORCE
Winky to be free. She may techinically be freed, but she isn't truly
forced to leave her master's service. They are both perfectly capable
and willing to continue their mutual service agreement and most likely
would have done just that.

Dobby on the other hand wanted freedom but was not willing to dishonor
himself sufficiently to gain that freedom, although, in visiting
Harry, he was certainly pushing it to a reckless limit. Of course, in
Dobby's case, given that nature of Lucius Malfoy, to act in a way that
would demand dismissal from service, could have very likely gotten
Dobby killed rather that freed. 

Again, this touches on the subject at hand, we see Dobby recklessly
exercising free will, but knowing the potentially dangerous
consequences, he is only will to exercise that free will within
certain boundaries.

I'll end with a caution about too tightly and absolutely comparing
human slavery to elfin service (or servitude if you perfer). There are
some significant differences.

Just a few more thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn