House Elves and justice, etc

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 129785


> Kristen:
> Interesting discussion hope you don't mind me jumping in with my 2 
> cents.
> 
> First, while I agree that to the owner of slaves; the salves are 
> demoted from beings to things.  However in the real world I cannot 
> make the stretch to believe that all slaves think of themselves as 
a 
> thing.   Full disclosure :-) My favorite quote is from Eleanor 
> Roosevelt "No one can make you feel inferior without your 
consent."   
> And as you'll see by the rest of my post I put a lot of stock in 
that 
> belief.
> 
> So it is no surprise that I would also disagree that slaves cannot 
> have dignity and integrity.  IMO Dignity is a state of 
worth/esteem 
> and respect that you give yourself; and integrity is acting in 
> accordance with your values.  Therefore, if you respect yourself 
and 
> act in accordance with your values you can have dignity and 
integrity 
> even if other don't give it to you.   
> 
> Last I maybe reading into your argument something you did not 
intend 
> but it seems that you are making an assumption that slaves lack 
free 
> will.    And IMO all people (slaves and those who are "free") have 
> free will.     Now I am sure I will get a lot of disagreement to 
that 
> statement so let me make a preemptive strike and say that I will 
also 
> argue that if you are a slave the choice to act in a manner that 
is 
> consistent with your values (e.g. with honor and integrity) is 
most 
> likely much much harder than a person who is free.  But I still 
> believe they have a choice.    
><snip>

You seem to imply that honour, integrity, values etc. is something 
inherent to human (or elfish as the case may be) beings. Well, they 
are not. They are culturally constructed concepts and they are 
nurtured. You may be by nature calm, bad-tempered, kind, cruel etc. 
but you, even if you are free modern human being, can't be dignified 
or honourable by nature. This is something you learn to be in the 
course of your life and education. Draco can be naturally arrogant 
and even cruel, but he cannot be "naturally" prejudiced against 
muggles. This is something he has learned. Hermione can be naturally 
kind-hearted and brave, but she cannot be "naturally principled". 
She must have acquired these principles together with the knowledge 
of alphabet and numbers. 

Suppose you were captured and made slave (which God forbid, of 
course). You would try to preserve your dignity; you would cling to 
that quote from Eleanor Roosevelt, you would remind yourself that so 
long as you have you free will your spirit is not broken.  But 
suppose you were born slave? More importantly, raised as one? 
Suppose you never heard of dignity much less of Eleanor Roosevelt? 
Suppose you grew up among other poor wretches and were taught since 
when you could remember that you are lowly sort? That you are by 
nature slave? That God himself ordained it so that you and all your 
kin exist only for a purpose to serve your masters? You'd have to 
possess a really exceptional personality to withstand the pressure 
of convention, I am afraid. Dobby has, but then he *is* exceptional 
(or a weirdo, depends on one's point of view). 

 As for honour or justice – it's simply mockery to apply these terms 
to slaves. Honour implies superiority both moral and social. Justice 
implies authority both in terms morality and in terms of power. 
Slaves are inferior (socially and according to 
convention "naturally") and subject to their masters' authority.

a_svirn