The Iron Fist of Will - additional thoughts Re: Possessing the possessor,

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 142455

Valky:
> *(snip)* ...Harry has many friends in the underworld, and Voldemort
> equally as many enemies. Voldemort being without love, and without
> friends is powerless there, he is at the mercy of the people he has
> killed in his life (like the wand shadows). 

Ceridwen:
I've thought the wand shadows would have something to do with the 
final extinction of LV since the end of GoF.  It's only fitting, IMO, 
that they have some way to avenge themselves.  I was imagining a 
Prior Incantatum (sp?), though how to trap LV into that situation 
again was always a problem.  I'd imagined that, being spirits or 
souls (not sure which would be inside the wand), they would also be 
the only ones who could deal with Voldemort's spirit and soul (or 
what's left of it) on the Spirit Plane.  No living corporeal being 
could, I'd think.  The veil/possession scenario takes care of how to 
get the shades of the departed into the picture.  So far, works great!

*(snip)*
Valky: 
> Okay Just for good measure here's my third and favourite (yet
> fanficcy/fantasy) version, not logical entirely, but it has all the
> elements I wish to see.
> 
> Harry takes Voldie through the veil and Voldie still has some kind 
of
> fight in him, Harry needs help to make it stick. He remembers he is
> with Sirius and calls to Sirius for help, Sirius turns up 
immediately
> with Harry's army who help Harry to overcome Voldemort in a
> magnificent final battle behind the veil.
> 
> When Voldemort is overcome and dead for good, everyone is astonished
> to discover that Harry is not dead, he can't stay. This is a
> bittersweet moment because Harry finally reunited with his parents
> discovers that he will not be able to stay with them because he is 
in
> a state of limbo and they are properly dead, and they also discover
> that Harry can't get back out without a body that has come through 
the
> front door. Naturally noone wants him to take Voldemort back and 
noone
> wants Harry stuck in eternal nothingness. SO his only way out is to
> take Sirius with him.

Ceridwen:
I don't get how Harry bringing Sirius's body out of the veil would 
bring Sirius back.  The body would now be available for burial and 
proper mourning, but two spirits just couldn't leave the veil, even 
if they're in one body.  If they could, then Sirius would have 
theoretically (IMO) been able to leave when he fell through.  I would 
think the only way a spirit/soul could leave, is if it wasn't 
supposed to be there anyway.  Which would be the case with two 
spirits/souls entering in one body.

But again, if Harry is possessing LV's body, that wouldn't be either 
his soul or his spirit, would it?  Only his mind?  He would still be 
attatched to his body through his soul and spirit being on the Other 
Side (our side, their version of the 'other side' *g*) with his 
living body.  I can see a possible scenario where, the longer Harry's 
consciousness remains behind the veil, the more of his soul/spirit 
energy follow him (which would be what was keeping his consciousness 
intact), and that sooner or later, if he stayed long enough, his non-
physical parts would join him there permanently, and the body would 
drop dead.

I could probably get into the soul/spirit differences again, though I 
got completely lost when we did that before.  But even if the 
consciousness belongs to one or the other, I would expect that both 
must be present in some measure for Harry (not the body) to really 
be 'beyond the veil'.  If consciousness is soul, then, the lack of 
spirit being with him would tie him to his body, something like a 
naturally-functioning horcrux.  If it's the spirit which holds 
consciousness, then the lack of soul would anchor the root of 
consciousness back in the body.  The bittersweet moment of greeting 
and parting could still exist, with all realizing that Harry cannot 
stay because he is not completely through the veil.  He could even be 
offered the choice (via Dumbledore?) to call his soul or spirit, 
whichever one is still intact in Harry's body, to join him, killing 
the body and leaving Harry beyond the veil (yet to us, still alive) 
forever.  He might even be able to go back to his body to think about 
it, and if he decides to take that option, to collect his soul/spirit 
and inform Ron and Hermione why he's about to go back through the 
veil for good.

It's interesting to think that all of Harry's parental figures who 
have been taken from him, supposedly to force him into the lone 
hero's journey, would be there at the end, aiding him as if they were 
still part of the living, right where they would have been if they 
had not died.  Instead of removing them, if this is going to be the 
scenario, JKR has placed them at the optimum place to give Harry the 
support he needs to defeat LV altogether, to get the deepest wish of 
his heart (to see his loved ones), and to find the strength to carry 
on without them, or to enter into their world beyond the veil.

Ceridwen.