Phi and the mechanics of possession

M.Clifford Aisbelmon at hotmail.com
Sat Nov 5 05:57:03 UTC 2005


No: HPFGUIDX 142516

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at y...>
wrote:
>
> (Reposted with typos corrected and unclear sentences reworded)
> 
> Valky wrote:
> > As much as you'd probably like me to avoid it Carol, this might take
> some Maths. <beg>
> >
> <Carol snips elaborate theories involving the Golden Mean, Phi, and
> an endless knot (see, I did read it!)>
> 
> Carol responds:
> Hi, Valky. I'm sure that you intended this explanation to be 
> helpful, but I'm afraid .... it doesn't really help me to grasp the  
> concept. I do think there's a precedent in legend and mythology for 
> physical possession ....and I can see Voldie in this light ... 
> However, I'm inclined to think that Harry's
> (hypothetical) possession of Voldemort in Book 7 would involve only
> spirit (or consciousness, if you prefer), so that when he leaves the
> Veiled archway ... he could reinhabit his own body (which he would 
> have left behind....

Valky:
Hi Carol, I actually find it surprising that you say that, since I
judged generally from your response in post#142484 that you were
leaning in the direction of body/body possession. I note now that you
were specifically referring to Voldemort in that message. But I find
it hard personally to separate possession into two quantities as you
have suggested. My major contention with doing so is that if Harry is
endowed with the magical power of Possession then canonically it
follows that it was transferred to him by Voldemort, hence it is
Voldemort's power, and to wit equal to Voldemort's power I would think.

I appreciate that you took the time to read and ponder my post in
spite of that fact that it is not your favourite subject matter. I am
sure we both would agree that if the final battle was to at all be
relatable to the Ancient Greek concepts of conciousness, or the
Eulisian Mysteries that the reading of it won't necessitate the reader
to know, understand or decipher the same. OTOH what is derivative of
them for the sleuth is not unprecedented ground for the HP plot. (at
least I think so anyway :D)

So on to the meat of the matter - Although we may just have to agree
to disagree, I can't see substantiation for the notion that Harry's
(hypothetical) possession will not include his physical~ self. 
Since you have brought up this wildly fanstastic topic (and thankyou
again!) I have been poring through canon for all the possession
related scraps that we do have. To my mind we have three *real*
possessions. All have 'some' distinct correlation, but none are
precisely the same.

The first of the three - Quirrel!Mort manifests canonically as a
second face sticking out of the back of the possessed's head. The
distinctive qualities of this one are that the POssesser was
Vapour!mort, which is not *exactly* a disembodied soul, but very much
like one with possibly a few minor additional qualities.

The second of the three - Tom!Ginny is presented as a girl who is
charmed, persuaded and eventually controlled by the combination of a
concealed fragment of memory and a disembodied/reembodied soul. We
don't see any physical anomaly to go with it, but that Ginny's body is
able to speak Parseltongue for Voldie and that the soul/memory has the
capacity to drain life from the carrier. Come to think of it the Life
drain thing is actually very consistent in the cases of possession,
Quirrel was made to drink Unicorns blood to sustain the life of him
and Voldemort, and there is also somewhere a story in the books about
Voldemort using up the life of his host animals, is there not?

The third of the three - Possessed!Harry is the most disturbing look
inside the mechanics of possession in the potterverse. It is performed
by the *whole* intact resurrected Voldemort and I found that there was
actually a veritable mass of canon on possession given to us in this
scene.  In this example the life drain is occuring again "...blinded
and dying..." but also at the moment of possession Harry '..knew he
was dead..." I can only speculate that these words refer to precisely
the moment when Harry's life is taken from him and 'becomes'
Voldemort's, IOW the instant of Voldie seizing possession of Harry's
life, in abstract it is the 'death' of Harry because "Harry" no longer
exists. Further to these things we are shown a few interesting
peripheral descriptions which I do believe we should take as measured
doses of Possession canon. Apart from the creature, coils and red
eyes, there is also the splitting apart of the headless wizard statue
and the bursting open of Harry's scar. It seems to me in this case
that we are being shown indirectly the 'physical' nature of
possession. Both times the physical thing (statue,scar) is described
as physical breaking apart. I do speculate here, but I think we are to
believe that Voldemort's possessing!intent conciousness passed
*through* the statue. 

I find myself therefore thinking that in possession (specifically done
by a full embodied being) there is 'physical' contact, well moreover,
physical force applied *to* the body of the possessed. This leads me
to be nigh convinced that physical matter is not left behind in the
act of possession. So I speculate that it is 'changed' by some guiding
principle instead. I would imagine it a waveform or something like
that carrying all the properties and source of the original
body/mind/soul and transferring them from their place into the *life*
of another being. In a sense I am imagining it as a queer twist on
apparation. 




> Carol:
> I think the key word in the possession scene in OoP is not "coil" 
> but "creature," the same word that Neri associates with Harry the 
> Horcrux. "In essence divided," as I said in another post, seems to 
> refer to Voldemort/Nagini rather than Voldemort. Or at least that's 
> how I, in my mathematically challenged way, read the scene.
>

Valky:
I do agree that creature is a key word there, but I still think that
the coils are important. I think we can abstractly match the coils of
the creature, spinning into apparition, the whirls/swirls of all the
snake imagery and even the 'graceful arc' of Sirius as he falls
through the veil to conclude that JKR does have a distinct concept of
conciousness~life~body in mind and is consistent in referring to it.
And of course my speculation which I happily glean from
mystical/mythological/mathematical concepts doesn't necessarily have
to be the right explanation. ;D I am used to the embarrasment of
putting my name to silly overly elaborate theories.

Valky











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