The Iron Fist of Will - body/body or body/spirit

[Bart Lidofsky]

No: HPFGUIDX 142548

(note to moderator: hope I did this OK; it's my first post)

Ceridwen wrote:
> a_svirn:
>>What distinction? Were there any demons in the Garden of Eden?
>
> Ceridwen:
> Not that I recall from the Biblical accounts.  The serpent 
> offers possibilities, but most point to him as the possessed 
> manifestation of the devil.

Bart:
Only from a Christian point of view; the concept of a "devil" in 
Judaism didn't come until the days of the Persian empire, and 
even then it was as a faithful servant of God.

> a_svirn:
>>I don't know about "ordinarily", but any number of witches was 
>>burned at the stake for not only touching demons, but having 
>>sexual relationship with them and bearing them children.
> 
> Ceridwen:
> The hysteria of the witch trials was just that.  The 'withces' 
> burned at the stake in Europe, the ones who were drowned, the 
> ones who were tortured to death, hung, pressed, were not witches. 
> We are not in the Potterverse.  They were people who, for some 
> reason or another, were hated by enough people to be brought 
> to 'trial' and murdered, for their property, or because they 
> were busybodies or otherwise unpleasant neighbors.

Bart:
Note that in most Christian theologies (with the most notable 
exceptions being Gnosticism and polytheistic Christianity like 
Voodoo and Santeria), all supernatural power that does not come 
directly from God comes from Satan. Therefore, anybody who 
exhibits power that did not come from some Official Source(tm) 
was, de facto, serving Satan. 
Virtually all the Christian leaders I know of realize that, in 
the Harry Potter books, magic is not supernatural but natural, 
and they have a strong moral message that is in agreement with 
most forms of Christianity.

> Ceridwen:
> What those women were accused of was impossible in our world.  
> Many confessed to impossible things because they were being 
> tortured beyond endurance.  Then of course they were burned at 
> the stake (Europe) or hung (Colonies).  One man was pressed.  
> Or, should we accept that witches really flew naked on 
> broomsticks as well?

Bart:
According to Norse scholar, Dr. Jane Sibley, one source of this 
is the goddess Freya's distaff (a long stick used to hold wool 
for spinning, and looks kind of like an upside-down broom), which 
she used for flying. 
Also according to a physician acquaintance who has done research 
on ancient herbology, distaffs and broomsticks were used by women 
for self-administering psychoactive substances (if you can't 
figure out how, then you probably shouldn't be told).

	Bart Lidofsky