WW as Parasite (was:Snape's iPod (was: Staff's Activities...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 142562

> >>Nora:
> Except that we've been given examples of wizards engaging in 
> explicitly derivative, but wizardly, forms of the arts.  I think   
> of the book titles: "Hairy Snout, Human Heart" is an overt parody 
> (although I can't quite remember exactly what of), and "Helas,     
> j'ai Transfigure mes Pieds" (by the wizard Malecrit) would        
> definitely have appealed to that mischevious medieval sense of     
> humor.

Betsy Hp:
I'm not sure I'd use self-help books as an example of literary 
culture.  But that's just me. <g>

> >>Nora:
> I think the parodic element is the key one here, on JKR's part.

Betsy Hp:
I agree, to an extent.  But if we're to give the characters a bit of 
depth we need to engage the WW as an actual culture, rather than a 
parody of our own.  And I'd say that while there is a parodic 
element, JKR's entire point is not one of parody.  

And that a few wizards, here or there, try to do a bit of writing or 
performing on their own doesn't suggest that they haven't cribbed a 
great deal of their ideas from the Muggle world.

> >>Nora:
> Wizarding society could definitely support rock music; chamber     
> music, one wonders about.  Opera is right out.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I think you missed my point here. Rock music formed from a very 
specific cultural evolution.  There is nothing within the WW's 
history to think that they would have formed that type of music 
completely (or even partially) on their own.  So the Weird Sisters 
*must* have formed because of Muggle music wizards heard and shared 
with each other.  They could not exist otherwise.

> >>Nora:
> But there's nothing stopping them from being parasitic--but then  
> generating their own *versions* of things, as opposed to going to 
> the Muggle world for their fix. When you have the Weird Sisters,   
> you don't need to go out of your way to get records of The Who.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I bet you would.  Seriously, would you limit your musical 
experience to just one group?  Why should music lovers in the WW be 
forced to live under such privation?  How many different orchestras 
and conducters do we have here in the Muggle world playing their own 
interpertations of great music?  Why should folks in the WW limit 
themselves to the one (if they're lucky) their culture could support?

Some might, of course (Molly springs to mind).  But others would 
not.  And not just music, but theater, art, literature.

> >>Nora: 
> <snip discussion of economics which is IMO a giant incoherent 
> sinkhole and one thing which marks Rowling's work as wainscot      
> fantasy and not anywhere near the high genre; in other words, do I 
> think she's really thought about it through to full coherency?     
> Haha.> 

Betsy Hp:
So I've never heard the phrase "wainscot fantasy" and have no idea 
what you mean there.  But I do cry foul to the old "JKR didn't think 
it through" cop out.  Come on now.  This is either a viable world 
she created or it's not.  I think there are ways to see it as 
viable, and this is my version.  You may disagree, but don't just 
take your ball and go home.  How can I possibly take your music 
arguments seriously if you turn around and say this is a mock-up 
world anyway and should only be taken as such? <g>

> >>Nora:
> But Dumbledore is also *exceptional* in his relationship to the 
> Muggle world, as emphasized again and again.  He doesn't see it   
> just as a source to be exploited...
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Ah, but being a parasite on the Muggle world *is* exploiting 
Muggles.  That's practically the definition.  I'm betting that 
whatever the WW takes from the Muggle world the Muggles are likely 
being ripped-off.  (Slughorn is a perfect example, I think.  I doubt 
the folks whose homes he stayed in would be thrilled if they knew.) 

> >>Nora:
> <snip>
> But there's absolutely no evidence of borrowing and maintenance of 
> Muggle music, as opposed to the adaptation of musical forms.       
> Carnatic music uses the violin, but that in no way makes           
> it 'Western' music.  I still object wholeheartedly to the idea    
> that Muggle music is a large-scale presence in wizarding society.

Betsy Hp:
Yes, but Harry recognizes the type of singing Warbeck does.  It's a 
type from the Muggle world.  That's my entire point.  For the WW 
music to so match the Muggle world means that either the Muggle 
world got it from them, or they got it from the Muggles.  Since the 
WW culture puts so little importance in music they must have 
piggybacked the Muggle musical culture.

If it were otherwise their music would have developed completely 
apart from the Muggle world and Harry would not see a similarity.  
Just as the first Europeans to hear a Chinese opera would not see a 
similarity with their own operas.

> -Nora doesn't quite see Snape as patient enough for most of the 
> classical music ascribed to his tastes, but that's another         
> discussion

Betsy Hp:
Yes, because inventing your own spells and improving on various 
potions is such a sign of a lack of patience. (Sorry. Couldn't help 
myself. <g>)

Betsy Hp