Why does Kreacher have to obey Harry?

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 142598

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lucianam73" <lucianam73 at y...>
wrote:
>
> 
> > Carol notes:
> > > I think the fact that Kreacher has to do what Harry orders
> > > indicates not only that Sirius's will is valid but that he
> > > is truly dead.
> > 

> Lucianam:
> 
> Just to stick to details, I don't think Kreacher obeying 
> Harry's orders proves Harry is his rightful master. It doesn't 
> prove Sirius is  dead, either.
> 
> Suppose ... Voldemort wants to trick the Order into thinking 
> Harry really inherited Grimmauld Place. All Voldemort has to 
> do is have Kreacher's new master, Bellatrix, order Kreacher 
> to follow every order Harry gives him. ...
> 
> If Sirius is alive and for some reason he wants people to think
> he is dead, all he has to do is, similarly, tell Kreacher to 
> follow Harry's orders. ...
> 
> Just a couple of annoying thoughts!
> 
> Lucianam

bboyminn:

Maybe we should define /death/. In the real world death is relatively
simple; when you are fully and completely dead, you are dead. Or
perhaps, for a more formal definition, when your soul leaves your body
and never comes back.

But in the magical wizard world it's not quite the same. True, in
general, according to JKR's principles of operation of the Wizard
World; dead is dead. But Sirius died under special circumstances. He
has /left the mortal realm/, he has /gone beyond the Veil/, he's not
hiding out somewhere or gone on vacation, he has left the earth
totally and completely. His absents in the physical universe is as
technically dead as dead can be. 

But, again... special circumstances. Normally, the spirit leaves the
mortal realm and goes beyond the Veil leaving a body behind. Sirius
went through the Veil body and all. It could be that his living body
and united soul are trapped in the realm of the dead beyond the Veiled
Archway. Again, I proposed with the support of others that very
special circumstances might occur if Harry, inside (possessing)
Voldemort, pass beyond the Veil. Circumstances the might allow Harry
to join with Sirius and bring them both back to the land of the living.

I admit, that while I like the idea, it is pretty farfetched, and like
all my other predictions, is probably not going to happen, but in the
context of this discussion, it illustrates that Sirius's physical and
spiritual absents from this earth make him as good as dead, but at the
same time, don't eliminate the possibility of him returning. 

So, Kreacher obeying Harry is valid because, Sirius has left the
mortal realm. In other words, he is dead by all earthly definitions,
but we don't know what happens on the other side of the Veil. We don't
know what rules apply there, and that opens the possibility for
Sirius's return back to the earthly realm.

Again, I'm not saying this is fact, only that it illustrates a
possible method by which Sirius could be dead by earthly definitions,
but still able to return to the story. 

Also, keep in mind that Harry using Sirius's body in order to return
from behind the Veil and into the earthly realm, only means that
Sirius's body will return with Harry inside. Once back, after Harry
abondons Sirius's body, Sirius could just as easily drop dead as not.
So the return of Sirius doesn't necessarily mean his return to life,
only his bodily return to the earthly realm.

So, he is gone, but not gone. And being /gone/ means Harry inherits.

Steve/bboyminn