WW as Parasite (was:Snape's iPod (was: Staff's Activities...)

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 142616

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:

> Betsy Hp:
> Well, you're the doctoral student (I believe) so I'll have to take 
> your word for it. <g>  Though it flies in the face of everything 
> I've ever read on the history of rock music.  (What culture, 
> totally seperated from the US also created rock?  I'm genuinely 
> curious.)

Not totally separated, but 'rock' is hardly a monolithic phenomenon 
with explicit and totally tracable paths of evolution--which is part 
of why people argue so hard about its origins.  There are popular 
musics elsewhere in the world which have some definite similarities, 
although it becomes very difficult to separate things out.  The whole 
idea of 'pure' culture is pretty laughable, of course.

> I still think it's a huge leap of faith to say that the Muggle 
> world and the WW, while travelling on parallel tracks, that never, 
> ever touched, came up with the exact same form of music at the 
> exact same time. 

That's never been what I've been arguing.  I'm simply arguing 
against, again, the idea that Muggle music is a common currency 
within wizarding society, maintaining its sonic profile and band 
associations unchanged.  I see the WW with their own musical icons 
(Celestina Warbeck), not wholescale poaching of Muggle ones.

I'm lacking the reference, but aren't the Weird Sisters somewhat non-
traditional, as compared to your standard rock band, in their 
instrumentation?  That speaks of a strong preference for adaptation, 
in and of itself.

> And I'm still confused at why it's patently impossible for Snape to 
> have been exposed to punk rock.

Because it requires him, IMO, given what I know about music 
distribution and musical cultures, to be and/or have been an 
interested party in actually engaging with a distinctively Muggle 
culture.  Now maybe Snape is more comfortable at home in Muggle 
culture, but I'd argue signs point against him having an interest in 
engaging with and identifying with it.  Half-bloods comfortable in 
their straddling of two worlds don't generally join a group of people 
whose overt public face is "Everything Muggle sucks and is inferior".

<snips arguments which I don't think I ever made>

Again, I don't think I've argued that there was no influence on 
wizarding culture.  I object to 'blend', though, because it goes one 
way, and it seems to be a very selective process.

> To clarify my point, I'm not suggesting that the WW goes out enmass 
> to consume Muggle music and culture.  Rather that there are those 
> wizards with an interest who *do* venture into the Muggle world, 
> and then bring Muggle items back into the WW, giving them their own 
> wizarding twist for the more squeamish wizards to consume. 

I can buy that.  That's totally not what was originally suggested by 
the speculation en masse of what kind of Muggle music Lucius Malfoy 
would have exposed young Snapeykins to.

> Betsy Hp:
> I've never suggested Snape as a composer.  I suggested he was a 
> listener.  I *can* say, with a great deal of authority, that one 
> can listen to and enjoy Debussy or Beethoven or Rachmaninov or 
> Velvet Underground or even ABBA (yes, even ABBA!) without taking 
> special courses or having a specialized type of patience. <bg>

Depends on your definition of 'listen', of course... :)

-Nora works on her own definitely Germanic biases in that area, but 
notes that they aren't totally awful biases to have...