Etiquette WAS Re: polite Dumbledore?

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 142617

 
> > SSSusan:
> > Heh heh.  I know some posters believe DD was out of line, but not 
> > me.  I squealed with delight as this scene progressed.  And one 
> > reason I did so is that DD *was* polite. 



> a_svirn
> 
> I can see why you could squeal with delight, but as for calling his 
> behaviour "polite"
 Surely you must be mistaken. To come uninvited, 
> without according your hosts a courtesy to deny you an entry is not 
> polite in the least.

Valky:
I differ on this occassion, a_svirn. Dumbledore follows custom very
well as far as I can see up to this point. He has announced his
arrival and in good faith arrives sharp on the hour. He *has* given
reasonable courtesy to deny him entry so far from his end. He arrives
in good faith and establishes that a misunderstanding has gone on.
Vernon has a further right to turn him away now, politely with a
reasonable excuse but failing that, it would be quite rude to turn
away someone who has come in good faith and has followed custom so
brilliantly as to even make pleasantries and introductions in the
correct manner. It is at this point that Dumbledore does *have* the
upper hand because Vernon and Petunia, as impossibly 'well up' on
etiquette as some brits can be, know darn well that if they don't want
Dumbledore to enter all that is left is to be very very rude in
turning him away into the night. When Dumbledore says I shall assume
that you have invited me warmly into your home, he is not breaking
etiquette, he's paying Vernon a compliment by saying, I have assumed
that you, Mr Dursely, are of a most civilised order and 'of course'
this is what civilised men, like we, do.


a_svirn:
>  To usurp their position in their own house is 
> still less polite. In fact it's downright rude, just check any 
> etiquette guide. Dumbledore was being about as polite as Scrimgeour 
> in the Prime Minister office, and about as courteous as Voldemort 
> when he insisted on observing the "niceties" of the dueling code. 
> Granted, Dumbledore did the thing with his usual style yet it wasn't 
> his superior manners he was demonstrating but the upper hand. 

Valky:
OTOH the Dursley's refused his gift, and struggled with their own
inability to follow *their* code of behaviour. Dumbledore acted beyond
as well any sensitive alien to British formal culture could be
expected to act. It can be seen from the both sides of the table. From
Dumbledores end it can be seen as good faith - he has followed custom
and therefore has every right to expect reciprocation of custom. The
Dursleys are just cornered because they cannot hide their prejudice
and ugliness behind proper manners, it would be more polite for them
to drink the offered gift and nod ceremoniously at Dumbledore's
conversation. It was definitely their own disservice to themselves
that they couldn't.



> a_svirn:
> And did you notice: Harry was not even remotely delighted with this 
> little demonstration. He was anxious to leave. Wonder what he was 
> reminded of. 

Valky:
Now this I absolutely agree with, but I will have to think on it some
more. My first intuition is that Harry felt disgusted that Dumbledore
afforded the superficial pompness of custom his bother, and maybe he
was reminded of the Dursley's themselves pressing their civility on
others to gain the upper hand. Any other thoughts?