Etiquette WAS Re: polite Dumbledore?

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 142662

> lealess:  It seems a fine distinction between "pressing an 
> > advantage" and bullying when the one doing the pressing is 
arguably 
> > a superior creature, at least in power.  What choice does the 
> > inferior have, except to submit?
> 
> Valky responds:
> The distinction is there though, because DD does not come 
brandishing
> a wand and making threats, he extends the Dursleys diplomatic
> gestures, niceties and civilised custom.

a_svirn:
Would you mind explaining the difference between Dumbledore's 
niceties when he "presses his advantage" with the Dursleys and 
Voldemort's niceties when he demands Harry to observe the etiquette 
of the wizarding duel. The similarities are striking; do you think 
it was also a diplomatic gesture on Voldemort's part? 

> Alla:
> 
> I do NOT think that Dumbledore was being RESPECTFUL to Dursleys, 
in 
> that I suspect I agree with a_svirn. Am I making sense? He was 
being 
> polite as in "using formalities", but definitely not respecting 
them 
> as people.

a_svirn: well, he wasn't using formalities. On the contrary he broke 
every known rule of formal behaviour and a few laws along the line.

>Alla:
> 
> Harry wants to leave BEFORE Dumbledore starts his litle 
> demonstration, well he comes in, but does not do anything else yet.
>  I interpreted it that Harry is very anxious to leave the Dursleys 
> indeed. I did not interpret it  that Harry wanted to leave because 
> he was unhappy with how Dumbledore treated Dursleys. JMO of course

a_svirn:
Harry wants to leave both before and during this little performance. 
When he packed his trunk and came down only to find the cowering 
Dursleys and the serene Dumbledore he wanted to leave even more than 
before. You may think this episode is a good joke, but Harry never 
once sniggered or smirked. He was acutely uncomfortable throughout 
the proceedings. Looks like he's not a big fun of poetic justice. 

> Alla:
> 
> To me this scene was another example of "poetic justice" or " 
> vicarious retribution".

a_svirn:

There is nothing vicarious about this particular retribution. As for 
its being poetic justice, I daresay, but it's still bullying for all 
that. In fact, that's exactly what makes it an example of poetic 
justice – the Dursleys getting some of their own medicine. 

> > a_svirn:
> > What do you mean "for a change"? We have seen wizards being rude 
> to 
> > them on Harry's behalf from the book 1.
> >
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Could you refresh my recollection, please? Do you mean those who 
> came to Vernon on the street to congratulate him in PS/SS?
> If yes, I don't see it as rudeness, but more like desire to share 
> the overwhelming happiness with anybody, even with Vernon. 
>

a_svirn:

Well, no, I didn't mean that. Although while we on the subject I 
must say that it's not polite in the least to share 
your "overwhelming happiness" with the family who just suffered a 
bereavement. Especially if you are happy about something that caused 
the said bereavement in the first place.

But you can refresh your recollection by rereading the "Keeper of 
the Keys" chapter of the Philosopher Stone for instance. Here we 
have a wizard being boorishly rude on Harry's behalf. Not to mention 
violent on Dumbledore's.