the WW's creativity

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 142714

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "darqali" <darqali at y...> wrote:
>
> Goddlefrood (a Roman centurion in a previous incarnation):
> > 
> > The Roman Empire is most usually dated to the Battle of Actium on 
> > 2nd September 31 B.C. Rather less than 4000 years ago. The city 
of 
> > Rome itself had its "legendary founding" in 753 B.C. by Romulus 
and 
> > Remus. Again rather less than 4000 years ago (1995 B.C.)
> > 
> > The Romans did indeed invent plumbing however and the website to 
> > which you refer as your source should perhaps be notified of this 
> > information.
> > 
> > The Roman Republic was founded rather later, that is in 510 B.C. 
> > after the last of the Kings was expelled and the Consuls 
enthroned 
> > in his place.
> 
> 
> Being very elderly, my education is out of date; but I did in fact 
> major in History in collegs, and am in fact very well aware that 
the 
> Romans had "plumbing" {of sorts}; and toilets {of sorts} and hey! 
> hypocaust central heating, too!
> 
> However, they did *not* have *flushing* toilets, nor any sort of 
> interior plumbing resembling that described in Hogwart's castle, 
> within which S. Slythern hid the entrance to the Chamber of 
Secrets, 
> and within which the Basilisk was able to get around the castle un-
> seeen, as described by JKR.  And the Muggles of the era of the 
> building of Hogwart's didn't have them at that time {yet} either.
> 
> Since Hogwart's apparently *did* have these things, very similar to 
> modern Muggle plumbing, 1000 years in the past, it is simple to 
> conclude that Wizards invented modern plumbing.
> 
> Indeed, since we see very ancient wizarding world characters 
> celebrated on the Chocolate Frog trading cards, such as Circe, and 
> the much later Merlin and so on, one may then conclude that perhaps 
> the versions of plumbing used by the ancient Romans were Wizard 
> invention as well ....
> 
> "darqali"

ahh, but the entrance to the Chamber wasn't a flushing toilet, it was 
part of the sinks - which is plumbing and the Romans, if not the 
Empire, did invent.  They had running water, indoor plumbing and 
sewer system in place which "wasn't surpassed in capability until 
very modern times." from http://www.unrv.com/culture/roman-
aqueducts.php

and "No society of old advanced plumbing technology as much as the 
Roman Empire. As long ago as 800 B.C. the Romans built enormous 
sewers to drain waste from the city. The Cloaca Maxima was Imperial 
Rome's main drainage trunk. Amazingly, it remains in use today as 
part of modern Rome's drainage system. Public lavatories date back 
just as far, with water constantly running beneath the latrines to 
wash the waste into Rome's sewer system. " and
"Luxurious indoor bathrooms have been found in the homes of upper-
crust Romans predating the Empire's famed public baths. In the ruins 
of Pompeii, destroyed by Mount Vesuvius in 79 A.D., have been found 
private homes with entire submerged rooms that served as baths, or 
perhaps more accurately described as indoor pools. Marble steps led 
down from the concrete floor of the main house. Walls were marble-
lined, and in a hollow space under the floor, a fire burned. The heat 
passed up through hollow terra cotta tiles to keep both air and water 
a comfortable temperature. 

Also discovered in the Pompeii ruins were ancient water spigots and 
water closets flushed by water from a cistern. Included are metal 
hinges that archaeologists believe attached to wooden toilet seats 
that have since deteriorated. Some homes in Pompeii had as many as 30 
water taps."

http://www.pmengineer.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/coverstory/BNPCoverSt
oryItem/0,2730,4435,00.html

so regardless of the bathrooms in the WW world, it seems that the 
Romans and also the Greeks had these systems in place way before 1000 
years ago.  Did Hogwarts upgrade?  Sure.  But I think the pipes and 
all had been laid into the foundations when it was built, but based 
on what we know of Roman technology, it seems that the WW probably 
looked to that, as that does predate Hogwarts.  

Also, bathrooms and being clean was not a thing Brits or the rest of 
Europe favored too much since the fall of the Roman Empire - it isn't 
only in recent times that we bathe more often that once a lifetime.  
There is an amusing tale about a woman who boasted that she hadn't 
washed her face in years - from the 2nd link:
"One 4th Century religious tract cites a pilgrim to Jerusalem gushing 
with pride that she had not washed her face in 18 years so as not to 
disturb the holy water of her baptism. "

colebiancardi
(The Romans are credited with the modern system of plumbing, sewer 
systems and so on...they really should get the credit here)