the WW's creativity

[darqali]

No: HPFGUIDX 142808

Colebiancardi:
> ahh, but the entrance to the Chamber wasn't a flushing toilet, it 
was 
> part of the sinks - which is plumbing and the Romans, if not the 
> Empire, did invent.  They had running water, indoor plumbing and 
> sewer system in place which "wasn't surpassed in capability until 
> very modern times." from http://www.unrv.com/culture/roman-
> aqueducts.php
<SNIP> 
> so regardless of the bathrooms in the WW world, it seems that the 
> Romans and also the Greeks had these systems in place way before 
1000 
> years ago.  Did Hogwarts upgrade?  Sure.  But I think the pipes and 
> all had been laid into the foundations when it was built, but based 
> on what we know of Roman technology, it seems that the WW probably 
> looked to that, as that does predate Hogwarts.  
<SNIP>


Darqali:
The subject of my post was not the Romans, nor who in the Western 
world first used some form of indoor plumbing.

It is *Hogwarts School*, built by Wizards about 1,000 years before 
present, and what it tells us about Wizard use of "technology"  in 
that time ... and what later events in the HP story tell us also 
about Wizards and their use of things similar to what we Muggles use 
today.

Hogwarts was built by Wizards in an age when Muggles in the area did 
*not* have indoor plumbing.

S. Slythern built within the Castle a hidden chamber, The Chamber of 
Secrets; with a hidden entrance that could be opened only by someone 
who spoke parseltounge, as he himself did.  The entrance was in the 
pipes in a girl's {! ... not a *boy's*} toilet!

It is *reasonable* to assume that the entrance had not been *changed* 
due to up-grades in the Castles fixtures, for the snake etched on the 
pipe was the magical devise Harry needed to trigger by speaking 
parseltounge demanding the entrance "open" for him.  One cannot 
imagine Wizard builders finding the hidden entrance, deciding to 
incorporate it into more moderning plumbing, and being *able* to 
endow the pipes with this magic without notice of anyone .... nor why 
they would do so, either.  The chamber was hidden; until Tom R found 
it, it remained un-opened; and *only* Harry & Co figured it out after 
Tom did {Ginny, of course, did open the Chamber too, but only upon 
Diary!Tom's instruction}.

So the seemingly *modern* {to Muggle eyes} Girl's Toilet was 
constructed at the same time as the Chamber ... about 1000 years in 
the past.  [One *could* argue, I suppose, that the origional room had 
sinks in ancient Roman fashion, but *not* flushing toilets, which 
were added later; but may I point out that Roman tiolets were usually 
unisex, and wholly open air affairs, and that they were *not* in the 
"bath" room; the BATHING area was not the same as the latrine .... 
Romans did *not* incorporate "girl's toilets" {or boy's toilets} in 
any building.  Their latrines did not feature *sinks*, either.]

Further, we have *more information* about Wizard plumbing in Order  
o.t. Pheonox, when Arthur W. has to deal with the jinxed Muggle 
version.  He says the Muggles call "plumbles", who are unable to fix 
the problem {of course, because it is a magical problem, a jinx}.  
But by explaining this to Harry, Arthur makes it plain that Wizards 
don't use the services of Plumbers ..... yet we know they have 
*plumbing*.

Now, getting back to the Chocolate Frog cards:  Harry's cards include 
figures famous in the Muggle world *as well as the Wizarding world*:  
Circe, Paracelsus, Merlin and the like.  Clearly, the WW and the 
Muggle world have not *always* been seperate; of old, people were 
often famous in *both* the Muggle and Wizard communities.

We know the Wizards were using plumbing in an era when the Muggles 
were not, *and* that Wizard plumbing doesn't require the services of 
plumbers to keep working {wizards don't even know the proper name of 
a plumber}.  We know this really is ancient technology, because the 
contents flush directly into the lake {I don't live in Great Britian 
but I would *hope* that their modern plumbing does not directly dump 
raw sewage into lakes and other fresh water sources .....}.

Therefore, it seems reasonable to conclude that Wizards have used a 
wonderous form of this technology for time-out-of-mind compared to 
the Muggle world.

Could they just have retained knowledge from the anceint Muggle world 
that Muggles themselves allowed to fall into disuse?  Perhaps; but 
then, how to account for the flushing toilets? {NO, Roman toilets 
didn't really flush like ours do .... and *yes* I have read the 
recent articles in Archeology  magazine on the subject}. And there is 
the fact that Wizard plumbing remains in service  without the 
assistance of plumbers, while ours does not .... No, I stick by my 
origional thought:  Wizards are behind our modern plumbing; and 
*theirs* works better than *ours*; and perhaps the person who brought 
the idea back to the Muggle world was a squib, or the Muggle partner 
of a Wizard ....for that matter, seeing that about half the WW 
selects Muggle partners when they marry; and given that the WW 
produces the occasional Squib as well, why assume *any* given 
technology or innovation {like, the musical forms discussed} are 
purely Muggle in origin?  The Wierd Sisters sound to me like  they 
would fit in with many modern groups .... which came first?  Muggle 
groups with their music innovation, or Wizard groups?  Sure, we have 
Muggle radio .... who is to say Wizarding Wireless doesn't *predate* 
it?  With some enterprizing Squib adding *ekletricity* to make the 
concept work for Muggles?  and so on ....

Darqali