Why not kill Lily?

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 142960

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "rklarreich" <rklarreich at a...>
wrote:
>
> Colebiancardi wrote:
> 
> <merciless snip of almost entire post>
> 
> > And no one has
> > addressed the fact that would LV even approve of such sappy,
> > sentimental crud as love coming from his DE?  And why would LV reward
> > Snape with such a boon?  Wouldn't LV worry that Snape could be turned
> > by Lily to the side of the good if she lived and was given to Snape?  
> 
> Roberta now:
> 
> OK, I'll give it a shot.  As I've mentioned before, I don't believe for 
> a moment that love for Lily ever motivated Snape, or that Voldemort was 
> trying to save Lily for him.  However, I could see Voldemort doing 
> something along those lines, not because he "approves" of something so 
> sappy (of course he doesn't!), but as a reward, which would have payoff 
> for him, Voldemort, later on.
> 
> Consider these two facts we know about Voldemort:
> 
> 1.  He rewards those who help him (cf. Pettigrew's new hand);

colebiancardi: yes - but perhaps the rewards that LV gives is material
things, not people.  And Peter did do something that no one else has
done for LV - he gave him his life back.  Also, a one-handed Peter is
probably of no use for LV.

> 
> 2.  He manipulates and blackmails his followers using their love for 
> others against them (cf. Draco in HBP).

colebiancardi:  good point.  However, LV threatened to kill Draco's
family if he didn't do what LV ordered him to do.  This is different
from Snape asking for Lily's life to be spared....What did Snape do
that was so awesome that LV wishes to reward him?  The prophecy thing
happened the year before and since Snape was a spy for LV, I would
think that would have been chalked up as being part of Snape's job -
to find out things that would be of interest to Voldemort.  And like I
said, Snape has turned against LV prior to James and Lily's deaths. 
Why would Snape ask for Lily's life to be spared, knowing that James
and Harry would die?  What would Dumbledore make of this request, if
he knew about it?  Unless.....

It was a setup.  James went to Dumbledore and asked him what could be
done to save his wife's life.  Even though James & Lily had made the
Fidelius Charm, I could see James going to Dumbledore for additional
protection for his wife and son - this, of course, without Lily's
knowing that James is doing this.  He asked Dumbledore if there is
anything else that can be done.  Dumbledore then goes to Snape and
makes the request that Snape ask LV to spare Lily's life, under the
pretense that Snape wants Lily for himself.  Since LV will tell Lily
that she doesn't need to die, that will give her time to fight back
and save her son.  So, Snape follows DD's orders and LV agrees to it.
  Perhaps this is where the quote of "Like father, like
son.<snip>...You'd have died like your father, too arrogant to believe
you might be mistaken in Black..." PoA Am Edition hardcover p. 361

When Dumbledore orders Snape to request Lily's life to be spared,
perhaps Snape felt that the secret keeper was not to be trusted
afterall.  Perhaps in Snape's mind, he thought why else would James
request this if James didn't know whom he could trust?  

but that is just a theory that I am sure someone will poke holes in :-)

I just think that LV wanted a clean shot at Harry, and lied to Lily
about sparing her life - I think if LV was successful at killing
Harry, Voldemort would have then just killed Lily with no problem.  I
cannot see Snape, who is supposed to be on the good side, just asking
for Lily's life to be spared, while her husband and son will die.  If
Snape is Dumbledore's Man(which I firmly believe in), he would never
make this request.  

> 
> As for Lily turning Snape to the good side (or fools' side, from 
> Voldemort's point of view), I doubt that Voldemort would worry too much 
> about that.  In the first place, there's his aforementioned new hold 
> over Lily, and in the second, he's always half-expecting his followers 
> to be untrustworthy anyway.

colebiancardi:  so the idea is that Lily would be under the Imperius
Curse?  I think that Lily would have the "real strength of character"
that MadEye states that one needs to fight against it.  Or a love
potion?  Again, that is assuming that Snape is ESE and not DDM. 
Anyway, DD would have questioned this logic with Snape and that would
mean DD would not have trusted Snape so much, if Snape went behind
DD's back and tried to make a deal with LV just to save Lily's life,
but leaving James & Harry to die.  

LV maybe half-expecting his followers to untrustworthy, but to allow
something such as LUV to cloud his follower's judgement(and a follower
who is a SPY, no less), is stupid on LV's part.  Unlike his other
DE's, who married like-minded souls, Lily is not evil and she is
muggle-born.  LV would look at that as tainting his vision of what the
WW should look like and that Snape's request is against all of
Voldemort's principles.   

colebiancardi
(book 7 will hopefully explain all....or maybe not....)