Why not kill Lily?

[rklarreich]

No: HPFGUIDX 142991

Roberta earlier:

>>Consider these two facts we know about Voldemort:
>> 
>>1.  He rewards those who help him (cf. Pettigrew's new hand);
> 
>colebiancardi: 
>
>yes - but perhaps the rewards that LV gives is material
>things, not people.  And Peter did do something that no one else has
>done for LV - he gave him his life back.  Also, a one-handed Peter is
>probably of no use for LV.

Roberta:

Perhaps the rewards are only material things, perhaps not.  Who 
knows?  I was speculating about possible motives for Voldemort to 
reward followers with what they want.  What Peter wanted in that 
moment was a hand.  It would have been pointless to give him 
something else.  If another follower wanted a lover, it would have 
been pointless to give him, say, a hand. :)

And a disaffected follower is also of no use to Voldemort.  You can 
kill him, but then you're one follower short.  Why waste them?  
Voldemort knows perfectly well that most of his followers are in it 
for themselves all the way.  (Crazed idol-worshipers like Bellatrix 
and Barty Junior seem not to be the norm.)

Roberta earlier:

>>2.  He manipulates and blackmails his followers using their love 
>>for others against them (cf. Draco in HBP).
> 
>colebiancardi:
>
>good point.  However, LV threatened to kill Draco's family if he 
>didn't do what LV ordered him to do.  This is different from Snape 
>asking for Lily's life to be spared....

Roberta:

My point was that the manipulation payoff would come later.  If you 
save someone your follower cares about now, you can threaten to kill 
that person later (as with Draco) if you need to ensure the 
follower's loyalty.

colebiancardi:

>What did Snape do that was so awesome that LV wishes to reward him?  

Roberta:

First, I thought I had made it clear in my original post that I 
wasn't talking about Snape and the prophecy.  I don't buy the 
scenario where LV spared Lily because Snape asked him to, or where 
Lily has anything to do with Snape's "remorse."  You asked why LV 
would *ever* spare someone's life to reward a follower, and I was 
trying to explain why I think he would under the right circumstances.

Second, in GoF Voldemort says that he rewards those who help him, not 
just those who return him to his body (even though that is the 
context).  If he only rewarded those who returned him to his body, 
that would be rather limiting for the DEs, wouldn't it? :)  As I said 
above, the DE organization is founded on self-interest.  There have 
to be rewards now and then.

colebiancardi:

>I just think that LV wanted a clean shot at Harry, and lied to Lily
>about sparing her life - I think if LV was successful at killing
>Harry, Voldemort would have then just killed Lily with no problem.  

Roberta:

I've said elsewhere that I disagree (it does seem that JKR has 
confirmed that LV would have spared Lily, but I'll keep to canon and 
just argue it as I see it).  Why bother lying and telling her to step 
aside just so he can kill her after Harry?  I mean, why not just kill 
her on sight and save time?  That would give him the clean shot you 
mention without the risk of an extra enemy bouncing around and 
interfering just when he was aiming that AK at Harry.

I don't agree with the theory that he wanted to torture her by making 
her watch the death of her son.  Voldemort didn't go to Godric's 
Hollow to have fun torturing and killing people.  He went to 
eliminate a threat, and that requires single-mindedness.  You go 
after the threat, and you get rid of anything in the way.  You don't 
waste precious time telling the kid's mother to get out of the way 
just because it's cool to watch her reaction to her child's death.

Roberta earlier:

>> As for Lily turning Snape to the good side (or fools' side, from 
>> Voldemort's point of view), I doubt that Voldemort would worry too 
>> much about that.  In the first place, there's his aforementioned 
>> new hold over Lily, and in the second, he's always half-expecting 
>> his followers to be untrustworthy anyway.
> 
> colebiancardi:  so the idea is that Lily would be under the Imperius
> Curse?  I think that Lily would have the "real strength of 
character"
> that MadEye states that one needs to fight against it.

Roberta:

Sorry, I mistyped above.  I meant to write "his aforementioned new 
hold over SNAPE."  Of course, "Snape" here is a stand-in for the 
hypothetical DE Voldemort is rewarding with the hypothetical spared 
victim for whom Lily is standing in.  I DO NOT believe this situation 
actually occurred with Snape and Lily.

And I agree that Lily probably had the strength of character to 
resist Imperius.  Actually, Harry probably inherited this quality 
from both parents.

Roberta