The Possibilities of Grey Snape/Dumbledore/Harry

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 143085



Lupinlore wrote:
I don't doubt there are a lot of other factors to be weighed, and a
lot of things Snape has to answer for. <snip>These factors are so
deeply interrelated that it is impossible to weigh and judge one
without weighing and judging them all. And if, as Alla particularly
likes to theorize -- and I think theorize well -- the type of
punishment likely to be manifest in the end is that of karmic
retribution and poetic justice, then it is almost inevitable that it
will be determined by Snape's entire gestalt of interactions and
personality, including fairly obviously his daily attitudes and
actions and, yes, teaching methods.

Valky:
The above is from another section of this thread but I would like to
add my comments here to save postage <g> 

I must agree with you, Lupinlore on Alla's angle of approaching Snape
redemption. It has always made perfect sense to me, IMO, the only
redemption scenario that properly encompasses the entirety of Snapes
misdeeds throughout the books would be in him offering Harry a sincere
humble and genuine remorse, and Harry forgiving him.


LOL :D I predict Lupinlore might say I have too much a penchant for
ordering extra cheese with corncakes. But there you have it. It's the
most Karmic, poetic thing I can think of and I am dead certain it will
happen.



>
> Steve wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > I think Snape very much resent being placed in the 'Judas' 
> > role. In killing Dumbledore, Snape has set the wizard world 
> > against him for all time. Even if Snape can come up with a 
> > reasonable explanation of the circumstances, in the end, the 
> > wizard world will never forgive him.
> > So, Snape is well aware that in destroying Dumbledore, Snape 
> > has destroyed himself even under the best of circumstances. 
> > I think this is evident in Snape's reaction to being called a 
> > coward by Harry. If Harry only knew the level of courage Snape 
> > had just shown. If Harry only knew just how much Snape had 
> > sacrificed for the sake of Dumbledore's Grand Plan, Harry 
> > could never call him a coward. 
> 
> Lupinlore:
> Oh dear, and here is the VERY thing that I think a lot of us 
> (well, some of us anyway) find so hard to swallow about DDM!Snape.  
> In his nobility and suffering, his bravery and willingness to 
> destroy himself for Dumbledore's Grand Plan, he in effect becomes 
> the hero of the series and Harry simply becomes a plot device, a 
> way to set up the scene for Severus to undergo apotheosis and, 
> Christ-like, crucify himself so that others might live.  

Valky:
You make a strong point there Lupinlore, and naturally I agree, we
can't reduce Harry to the division of plot device for Snape's
apotheosis. OTOH I see Steve's point in an entirely different light to
that, he is relating strictly to Snape's point of view, in which Snape
is the Universal centre. It goes to the argument of his candidacy for
redemption at the close of the series that he pivots on some point of
nobility. The canon on Snape backs his inclination to actions of
nobility, while clearly demonstrating his error in comprehending the
same. POA is the ultimate example of this. Hence as far as we can
measure Snape himself, it's valid to suppose that the tower was a
moment of extraordinary valour for him, a great sacrifice within the
framework of his character direction. We keep that in perspective by
then qualifying that it's a peripheral sacrifice within the scope of
the whole story, it's not the ultimate one, and Snape is not *the*
Hero, just heroic.

IMO, what we have here is a Snape who aspires to iconic nobility - but
fails to comprehend it. Within that I see the hypothesis that Steve
and Jen have put forward as entirely plausible. And I don't,
personally, doubt their ability to keep a firm reign on the
perspective that we are dealing with in saying so. 

While keeping that perspective we can further say that Snape probably
has a great deal of trouble comprehending whatever nobility there
might be to his actions on the tower. I mean, as Steve pointed out, it
ain't gonna win him and Order of Merlin, is it? Snape seems to be
determined to measure his worth by these tokens, while clearly the
other party involved in the tower scene feels quite the opposite about
those things (ie as long as they don't take me off the Chocolate frog
cards). 

 
Valky