Power vs. Trust (was:The Possibilities of Grey Snape...)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 143141

> Pippin_999  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > This is a series in which childhood, but especially perpetual 
> childhood, is not seen as an admirable state. We see over and over 
again that  childish judgement is by definition poor.   I would not expect 
Harry's  childish  judgement of Snape to be validated.

Lupinlore:
> Gee.  I'm not at all sure where you're getting this from.  Childhood 
> is portrayed as inevitably coming to an end, true.  But part of that 
> coming to an end ISN'T automatically more sympathy with the adults --
>  it is in fact learning that the adults are in fact sometimes deeply 
> flawed in choice and character, and sometimes even more malicious 
> and incompetent than the child originally thought.  Think of the 
> different views of Fudge, for instance, or your bete noir, Lupin, 
> that Harry gains as he grows older.  I'm not at all sure the message 
> is "It's great and glorious to grow up and throw aside the false 
> images of wretched childhood," but something more like "Growing up 
> is inevitable and unfortunately very painful in part due to the fact 
> that the failings and foolishness and malice of adults become so 
> much more apparent.  We just have to deal with it the best we can 
> and hold on to our childhood virtues if at all possible."

Pippin:
I'm not sure where you're getting that from. The failings, foolishness and
malice of children are at least as well represented as those of adults. 
Rowling shows them as selfish in the extreme. It is innocent selfishness,
mostly; we're willing to excuse the Marauders for their mischief-making, 
but it is shown as leading to very dangerous and unwise actions.

Another example:  we're given to understand that Harry's continued anger 
toward Snape at the beginnning of HBP is selfish. Harry's using it to mask 
off his own guilt about Sirius. It would be poor writing, IMO, to raise this issue 
and then resolve it by having Snape be truly responsible for Sirius's end, so 
that Harry never has to confront the fact that his feelings were unjust. 

 When Harry has done the right thing, Dumbledore praises him for acting 
like a man, while the Death Eaters are constantly compared to babies.
The one virtue the children have is the ability to detect  BS. 
However, Dumbledore is at least as good at detecting insincerity as Harry is, 
though he doesn't always indicate right away that he's caught on. His words
make clear that he knew about Quirrell and Lockhart before Harry did. 

But deception in the Potterverse, as practiced by the masters of the art, is not
insincerity. It's more like method acting. The occlumens doesn't speak 
words in opposition to his feelings, he actually shuts those feelings down,
and in some way manages to associate the "appropriate" feeling with the lie.
So Fake!Moody was truly paranoid, truly loathed the Death Eaters that walked
free, and truly wished Neville to see him as a friend. Yes, Dumbledore was
fooled. But so was Harry. 

If Snape or somebody has been fooling Dumbledore all these years, it's
not likely that Harry will see through them just by virtue of his ability to
detect insincerity. It's never been enough before.

The adult ability to put logic over gut feelings, maturity in other words, is
what's been necessary in every book to solve the mystery. Gut feelings are
fine when you're confronting evil that has shown itself, but evil in hiding 
can only be exposed by logic, which Harry is always failing to apply. 

Harry didn't even solve the Draco mystery; he never figured out Draco's plan 
or   who his target was, while Dumbledore knew (or so he says) all along. 
(It isn't that Dumbledore didn't *know* Draco was trying to get Death Eaters 
into the castle, it's that he didn't believe there was any way Draco could 
succeed.) And Dumbledore knew, better than Harry, that Draco did not sincerely 
wish to be a murderer. I'd say Dumbledore has a better track record than
Harry at figuring out who the bad guys are.

Pippin