Childhood values v Adulthood values in Potterverse WAS: Re: Power vs. Trust

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 143143

> Pippin:
> I'm not sure where you're getting that from. The failings, 
foolishness and
> malice of children are at least as well represented as those of 
adults. 
> Rowling shows them as selfish in the extreme. It is innocent 
selfishness,
> mostly; we're willing to excuse the Marauders for their mischief-
making, 
> but it is shown as leading to very dangerous and unwise actions.

Alla:

I do disagree with your last example, I have to say. I am assuming 
that you are specifically talking about Marauders running around with 
Remus, right?

I consider those excursions NOT to be the case of selfishness, but 
poorly executed case of noble intentions - to be there for their 
friend in the situation of need. And we DO know that Remus needed 
them not just for fun, but because he was calmer with Prongs and 
Padfoot around, no?

Yes, I remember Remus saying that they were close to putting 
villagers in danger, but again - I think it was a poorly executed 
case of noble intentions, because all that they needed to do IMO was 
to find the unpopulated territory somewhere close to Hogwarts.

I think " to be there for your friend when your friend needs you" is 
VERY good example of something which children should carry into 
adulthood.

As to your general argument, well, some children are selfish, of 
course, but I do think that in general JKR portrays kids, whom she 
considers to be good people overall (not saint, just good) as MUCH 
more capable than adults whom she considers to be the good people.


Pippin: 
> Another example:  we're given to understand that Harry's continued 
anger 
> toward Snape at the beginning of HBP is selfish. Harry's using it 
to mask 
> off his own guilt about Sirius. It would be poor writing, IMO, to 
raise this issue 
> and then resolve it by having Snape be truly responsible for 
Sirius's end, so 
> that Harry never has to confront the fact that his feelings were 
unjust. 

Alla:

Except IF Harry's feelings about that situation are indeed unjust, 
Harry already confronted them, well sort of. Doesn't he admit 
somewhere in HBP that he blamed Snape because it was easier than to 
blame himself. Sorry, don't have the book with me right now, but will 
look for the quote if called upon.

Of course Harry did not get rid of those feelings yet, but he 
realizes what is going on.

So, IMO, it would be quite fine to switch situation now and to show 
that Harry's feelings were not so unjust after all. Just me obviously.


Pippin:
> However, Dumbledore is at least as good at detecting insincerity as 
Harry is, 
> though he doesn't always indicate right away that he's caught on. 
His words
> make clear that he knew about Quirrell and Lockhart before Harry 
did. 

Alla:

Dumbledore learned about Quirrell only when he was about to leave 
school, no? Unless of course you believe that Snape told him earlier, 
which I don't.

I mean sure Harry in first two books makes lots of mistakes, but 
Dumbledore tracking record in detecting insincerity and especially 
DOING something about it is IMO very bad. I guess better if you 
compare it to eleven-year-old Harry, but worse even if you compare it 
to sixteen-year-old Harry.


Pippin:
> Harry didn't even solve the Draco mystery; he never figured out 
Draco's plan 
> or   who his target was, while Dumbledore knew (or so he says) all 
along. 
> (It isn't that Dumbledore didn't *know* Draco was trying to get 
Death Eaters 
> into the castle, it's that he didn't believe there was any way 
Draco could 
> succeed.) And Dumbledore knew, better than Harry that Draco did not 
sincerely 
> wish to be a murderer. I'd say Dumbledore has a better track record 
than
> Harry at figuring out who the bad guys are.

Alla:

Well, we do not know for sure what exactly Dumbledore knew, right? 
And again, he appeared to disregard Harry's warnings quite nicely, so 
I do disagree that Dumbledore knows better than Harry who the bad 
guys are. Or even if he does, he does not act upon such knowledge, IMO

If Dumbledore knew what Draco was up to, he appeared to be VERY 
surprised by Dark Mark at the end.


Of course JMO,

Alla