CHAPDISC: HBP4, Horace Slughorn

[hg_skmg]

No: HPFGUIDX 143354

hg:
I've been looking forward to this discussion.  I read the summary and 
the other responses, but for purposes of space, I'll respond only to 
the questions themselves.  My take on things seems to be different 
from most perspectives.
hg.

QUESTIONS. (Snipped for space.)

> 1. Do you see any symbolic connection between these two quotes?

I see it two ways: Either as a moment between Dumbledore in which 
the "weight of the world," so to speak, is passed from Dumbledore's 
shoulders to Harry's; or as a counter-point, in the context of the 
theory that Slughorn has assumed Dumbledore's identity for this foray 
to the cave.

> 2. When Albus says, "Lord Voldemort has finally realized the 
> dangerous access to his thoughts and feelings you have been 
> enjoying," does he mean that in OOP Voldemort had no idea that
> Harry had access to his thoughts and feelings? Wasn't it necessary 
> for Voldemort to know that Harry would receive the vision of Sirius 
> in order for his plan to lure Harry to MoM to be successful? In 
> other words, I thought that Voldemort was aware of the connection 
> during OOP. Are we supposed to think that he was not? How does 
> Dumbledore know that Voldemort is now employing Occlumency against 
> Harry?

One of the other (many) responders noted the possibility that this 
seems to be a contrived explanation from Dumbledore, and I'm 
considering that myself, as I also found it odd.  We might also 
speculate that if Voldemort is aware of Harry's awareness, he might 
be pretty cautious in this regard.  I do think Voldemort knew about 
the connection before the Ministry, and perhaps discovered more in 
his attempt to possess Harry.

> 3. Horace Slughorn tells Dumbledore that he did not have time to 
> set the Dark Mark over the House. "The Dark Mark," he 
> muttered. "Knew there was something 
 ah well. Wouldn't have had 
> time anyway" Can anybody set the Dark Mark? Anybody who has no 
> connections with Death Eaters at all? 

I think this could be a set-up for the possibility of illusion and 
misdirection being employed in the tower scene at the end, which 
Slughorn has demonstrated he's quite adept with here in Chapter 4.  I 
don't think it indicates that Slughorn has ever had association with 
the Death Eaters.

 
> 4. If Horace had been "out of touch with everybody for a year," how 
> does Dumbledore know that he is now hiding in charming village of 
> Budleigh Babberton?  

I think Dumbledore has been trying very hard to find him for the 
entire year.  It seems that Slughorn is the person Dumbledore was 
attempting to hire in the summer pre-OoP -- that they met that 
summer, Dumbledore got the botched memory, and has been seeking him 
out ever since.  As to how -- I don't know how Dumbledore manages 
much of what he does.

 
> 5. When I was preparing the questions for this chapter discussion, 
> I could not shake the feeling that I am having Mark Evans de ja vu. 
> Why? Because I started seeing symbolism where JKR probably had no 
> intention to write anything symbolic. "They stood back to back, the 
> tall thin wizard and the short round one, and waved their wands in 
> one identical sweeping motion."

I don't think at ALL that it was unintentional symbolism here.  In 
fact, I think it's highly suggestive of a peer relationship between 
the two -- perhaps Slughorn is the closest to an "equal" for 
Dumbledore (as she discusses in the MN/LL interview) that we've ever 
seen.  It's clear that Slughorn has his character flaws and that 
Dumbledore is aware of them; however, I get the sense that Slughorn 
has the same informed perspective of his old friend.
Also, we see here that their spell-work is comparable, and that 
Slughorn is left-handed, and we see his eye color ("pale gooseberry," 
a shade of green).  Very deliberate, in my opinion.


> 6. Slughorn claims that he spilled dragon blood on the walls, when 
> he was preparing his little charade. He also says that it may still 
> be reusable. How do you think it could be reusable after already 
> being spilled? Dragon blood keeps showing up in the series. Do you 
> think it may play important role in the ending? Do you think it 
> already played the important role in the beginning, but we may not 
> know about it yet?

I don't think he can reuse dragon's blood that's contaminated with 
dust for a potion, and he's probably aware of that.  I think it's 
highly likely that the same dusty dragon's blood from the vial was 
used for effect on the body of Dumbledore at the end of the tower 
scene.


> 7. and 8. 
> Is there any significance that he describes the reason for the 
> injury basically the same way Snape describes it to Bella 
> in "Spinner's end"?  Horace's words are, "Reactions not what they 
> were, I see." Would you agree that Slughorn seems to be *too* 
> unconcerned about Dumbledore's injury? If you disagree, why?

I don't think he knew about the injury prior to this meeting.  I 
think his relatively mild reaction is partly due to his confidence in 
Dumbledore's capabilities, partly due to his mistrust of Dumbledore's 
motive for visiting (when it must have required some good detective 
work to find him).  It's consistent with his reluctance to offer 
drinks, when other times, when he's relaxed and feeling in control of 
the situation, he offers drinks right away.

 
> 9. What was your very first impression of Horace Slughorn?  I mean, 
> particularly, if it's possible for you to recall before you read 
> anything about him on the HPFGU. 

I was thrilled to read such a colorful character, especially 
discovering his connection to the backstory.  It seemed there was 
more to come through his introduction into the series.  


> 10. Here Harry meets the man who taught his mother, who seems to 
> like his mother very much and Harry is still not asking him any 
> questions about Lily. What do you think about it?

Harry and Slughorn are still sizing each other up.  They are both 
aware that Dumbledore has arranged this meeting with an intended 
purpose and expectations of their affect on one another.  It seems 
Harry is appropriately mistrustful.  Also, remember Slughorn is 
bringing up Sirius in the same breath, as well as Lily's suitability 
for Slytherin House.  Since Harry doesn't trust anything Slytherin, 
it's asking a lot to expect him to cozy up to Slughorn immediately.  
If that's not enough, then Dumbledore compounds things when they 
leave by warning Harry that he may be "collected."  I don't buy for a 
minute that Slughorn's motivation to be near to Harry is for that 
purpose: Harry "The Boy Who Lived" is a living reminder of Slughorn's 
loss and the guilt/remorse he must feel about his possible role in 
her death.  And he doesn't know that Harry's the Chosen One until 
Harry later tells him, in Hagrid's hut.

hg