PoA - Snape knew?

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 143412

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ginny343" <ginny343 at y...>
wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "colebiancardi"
<muellem at b...>
> wrote:
 > >
> > c: I don't believe anyone knew about Peter back in 1980/1981 as
> being
> > a spy for Voldemort - it doesn't seem that way in the books.
> Also,
> > since Voldy kind of mistrusts his DE's, he probably kept them in
> the
> > dark about their roles. In GoF, when Snape is accused of being a
> DE,
> > he wasn't labeled as a spy, just a DE.
> >
> > But because of the Order of the Phoenix, I would think that
> Peter's
> > role would be kept hush-hush. His name never, as far as we have
> been
> > privy to, came up in an court/trial scenes as being a Death Eater.
>
> Ginny:
> Back in 1980/81 I'm not sure people didn't know about Peter.
> According to PoA, the Order thought "someone" close to the Potters
> were passing information and Sirius accused Peter of having been
> passing information to LV for a year before James and Lily's
death.

c: Yes, they thought that someone close to the Potters were passing
information, but the Order thought it was Sirius, not Peter. And PoA
is AFTER the fact. Sirius *knows* it was Peter, no one else does.
Sirius knows this because he suggested that Peter become the secret
keeper and lo-and-behold, the Potter's are betrayed. No one outside
of James, Lily, Sirius & Peter knew the switch was made.

I don't know what your point is. This is all AFTER the fact.

> Sirius also said that Peter was hiding from the LV's supporters who
> weren't in Azkaban because they thought Peter had caused LV's
> downfall when he had gone to the Potter's Peter's info. So, at
> least some of the DEs knew Peter gave the information and Peter
knew
> it (hence his hiding as a rat).
>

c: Again, AFTER the fact. Only Sirius KNOWS this, no one else.
Jeezzzz.... Sirius knew about Peter, which is why he confronted him
and why Peter blased a whole street full of muggles and planned his
*death*. Sirius was locked up in Azkaban without a trial, so no one
knew - only Sirius knew.


> About the court/trial, I might be wrong here, but I thought the
> scenes we've witnessed were after LV's downfall. I find it hard to
> believe Karkaroff would betray fellow DE's if LV was still in
> power. So, everyone assumed Peter to be dead. It would be
> pointless to accuse him.
>


c: Karkaroff accused dead people in the court scene - why not Peter
as well?

> > Ginny:
> Okay, but here is my main question. If the DEs knew that Peter
gave
> the information on LV, then it is really hard to believe that Snape
> didn't know that. So if Snape is really concerned that Sirius is
> dangerous to Harry, he must have thought both Peter and Sirius were
> on LVs side.

c: I don't believe the DE's knew until after PoA that Peter was
working on their side. Peter was Scabbers for 12 years and no one
knew that Scabbers was Peter.

AGAIN: Snape didn't know Peter was alive. He didn't even see or
hear anything about Peter being Scabbers in the Shack. And I doubt
highly that Snape knew that Peter was the person who betrayed James &
Lily back in 1981. LV *died* that night, so LV could not have told
Snape about Peter after the fact either. We don't know when Peter
was approached by LV or Peter approached LV. We have no idea when
that happened or who knew about it. Nothing in the books, with any
conversations with Peter & Snape, indicate that they had been working
on the same side since the early 1980's.

 > Ginny:
> Okay, I posted this badly and got really confused at the response.
> I meant, right after J&L were killed (in 1981), did Snape think
> Sirius went after Peter to kill him because he caused the downfall
> of LV or did Snape think Peter (grieving) went after Sirius because
> his friends were dead. I don't think Snape could have believed
> Peter went after Sirius out of grief (as everyone had thought)
> because he must have known Peter was the one to betray. I know
that
> is confusing. Even if Snape didn't know at the time that Peter was
> the one passing information, as the years went on, with some DEs
> knowing it was Peter passing information . . . he must have
realized
> it. I mean, he is friends with the Malfoys and teaches many of the
> DE's kids.

c: I don't know what Snape thought. I do know what the common
thought was - that Sirius was so upset that Voldemort was dead that
he went after Peter, who was James & Lily's friend to take him out.
Again, you & I are coming from two different places. You assume
that Snape knew about Peter's role in all of this back in 1981. I do
not. I do not believe for one minute that Snape or any other DE knew
about Peter's role with Voldemort. And as far as Peter passing info
as the years went by - Peter WAS A RAT!!! Scabbers, in fact. Living
with the Weasleys. The DE's were disbanded.


 > > c:I don't think Snape knew Peter's role with Voldemort until
AFTER
> > PoA & BEFORE GoF. Hence, I don't think there is anything to be
> > disappointed about :-)
> >
> Ginny:
> I hope you are right, but I need more convincing.

Well, I don't know why. I am a little confused on where you are
coming from here, as there is plenty of cannon to support that Sirius
was well-known as the SK. I mean, look at the conversations with
Snape & Peter - do you really get the impression they knew each other
well enough that Snape knew what Peter was up to back in 1981? Has
there been any indication with the graveyard scene that the DE's knew
Peter as a DE?

 > >
> > c:At that point and time, Snape still believed Sirius was the
> Secret
> > Keeper who betrayed James & Lily - no one told him otherwise (or
> at
> > least, someone with creditability) Dumbledore most likely
filled
> > Snape in after the scene in the Hospital Ward.
> >
> Ginny:
> Did Snape really still think Sirius was the Secret Keeper? Even
> though LV's supporters knew Peter gave the information?
>
>

c: Hold the presses, Ginny. Where are you getting this information
from? There is NO cannon that states that the DE's knew Peter was
the secret keeper. And there is cannon that everyone in the
wizarding world knew that Sirius was the Secret Keeper who betrayed
James & Lily.


> Ginny343, still feeling that at the beginning of PoA Snape knew
more
> than he was sharing. And maybe because he hated Sirius . . . but
> wouldn't that cause his problems with DD?
>

c: Sure Snape knew more than he was sharing. But only that Lupin was
a werewolf and he was certain Sirius would kill Potter. But Peter?
He didn't know Scabbers was Peter...no one did until Sirius figured
it out. I am not sure where you are reading into this with PoA. How
about some canon quotes to back up your theory - that might help
convince me that you are onto something. Otherwise, I will not be
responding anymore to this topic. I think this is out in left field
somewhere - sorry.

colebiancardi