CHAPDISC: HBP4, Horace Slughorn

[lucianam73]

No: HPFGUIDX 143452

Alla wrote:
>
> <snipped, straight to questions>
> 
> CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, 
Chapter 
> 4,Horace Slughorn.
> 
> QUESTIONS.
> 
> 1. Consider the following quote from this chapter:
> Dumbledore: "However, I do not think you need worry about being 
> attacked tonight."
> Harry: "Why not, sir?"
> "You are with me," said Dumbledore simply.   
>  Now look at this quote in chapter 26,"The Cave:"
>  "I am not worried Harry," said Dumbledore, his voice a little 
> stronger despite the freezing water. "I am with you." 
> 
> Do you see any symbolic connection between these two quotes?

Lucianam:
Yes, surely the first answer, "You are with me", is the set-up for 
the second one. I suppose it was writen like that to achieve 
literary impact and provoke an emotional response in the reader: 
Harry grows to be Dumbledore's protector in the cave scene.

But when I first read the first Q, the one in the chapter we're 
discussing, I had a different impression, I thought Dumbledore was 
referring to the ring. I thought he meant, 'You needn't fear the 
Dementors (they were talking about the fog and how it was due to the 
Dementors breeding), I will protect you agains them.' I assumed the 
ring was wearing possibly had power over the Dementors or was a 
Dementor repeller.

> 
> 4. If Horace had been "out of touch with everybody for a year," 
how 
> does Dumbledore know that he is now hiding in charming village of 
> Budleigh Babberton?

Lucianam:
That's an excellent point and I wish JKR will explain it. But 
perhaps she'll leave it like that, Dumbledore being a resourceful 
man possibly has means of keeping an eye on Slughorn.  
> 
> 
> 7. If Horace has been "out of touch with everybody for a year", 
how 
> does he know about Dumbledore's injury? Is there any significance 
> that he describes the reason for the injury basically the same way 
> Snape describes it to Bella in "Spinner's end"?
<snipped>

Lucianam:
I think he just recognized DD's blackened arm as a magical injury. 
One an agile wizard wouldn't suffer, so he assumed DD's reactions 
were slower than they used to be.
> 
> 8. Would you agree that Slughorn seems to be *too* unconcerned 
about 
> Dumbledore's injury? If you disagree, why?

Lucianam:
Maybe it's just a sequel now, so it means it healed not very badly. 
I suppose slughorn is familiar with magical injuries, so he 
recognized DD's as a treated one.
 
> 
> 9. What was your very first impression of Horace Slughorn?  I 
mean, 
> particularly, if it's possible for you to recall before you read 
> anything about him on the HPFGU. 

Lucianam:
I liked him, but I didn't trust him at all. He's a new character, 
and even if he's not the DADA teacher he's still a new teacher! 
We've learned to be suspicious of those...
He tells us a lot of things, but we see little proof. For example, 
he says he set up the whole scenario at the village house. Well, so 
he says! What if the house had really been attacked, and he made a 
deal with the attackers? All he had to do was to transform into that 
armchair and play his part, tell his story about being in the 
bathroom and preparing the charade...
I like the theory (I'm so sorry, I forgot whose theory this 
originally is; I can come up with the quote below but I'm not sure 
who started it) of the first 4 chapters happening in the same night.

> Ceridwen said:
> I know you didn't ask me, but I think all four chapters are on the 
> same
> night (and going into the stay at the Weasleys as well). I think 
> what JKR is doing, is going from the least-known, the Other 
> Minister, Fudge, and Scrimgeour, to people we know (Snape) or have 
> met (the Black sisters), then down to our POV character, Harry. 
> Like a spiral starting at the outer edges and working its way in. 
> Just my opinion.

Lucianam continues:
What if the Ministry of Magic, not the Death Eaters, raided 
Slughorn's house? Scrimgeour arrived late at the meeting with the 
Muggle Prime Minister because he was 'busy'. Suppose he was busy 
talking Slughorn into playing the spy for the Ministry?

About Dumbledore going to the bathroom, maybe he didn't only mean to 
leave Harry and Slughorn alone, or even had a full bladder. Maybe he 
wanted to check if the bathroom had really been used recently? 

Something else I think we're taking for granted about Slughorn is 
his relationship with Lily.

Quote from HBP, Chapter 4:
'You look very like your father.'
'Yeah, I've been told,' said Harry.
'Except for your eyes. You've got -'
'My mother's eyes, yeah.' harry had heard it so often he found it a 
bit wearing.'
'Humph. Yes, well. You shouldn't have favourites, as a teacher ...'
<Slughorn continues talking about Lily and praising her>

Now, Harry assumed Slughorn was going to say '- your mother's eyes.' 
What if he wasn't? What if he was going to say ... '- green eyes.'? 

James had hazel eyes. If Slughorn indeed knew James, but didn't know 
Lily enough to remember her eye color, he would have said 'Except 
for your eyes. You've got green eyes.' But Slughorn takes Harry's 
lead and goes on saying good things about Harry's mother, which 
serves to at least three endings: it pleases Harry, makes him 
believe Slughorn in fact knew his mother well even if he never did, 
and show Slughorn just how very easy to fool Harry is.

These are just thoughts, I'm not betting heavily on these theories. 
But I'm not taking things for granted very easily, I feel we're 
stepping on very shaky grounds in HBP. 

> 10. We know that Harry does not ask questions about his parents 
even 
> in those rare situations when he has the chance to do so. Here 
Harry 
> meets the man who taught his mother, who seems to like his mother 
> very much and Harry is still not asking him any questions about 
> Lily. What do you think about it?
> 
Lucianam:

Well, that was weird. I could say that supports what I just said 
above about Harry being gullible and easy to fool, but I think the 
easiest explanation is that JKR forgot to write about it or thought 
it unimportant.

Excellent questions! I was really looking forward to discussing this 
chapter, I think Slughorn is so interesting. I would just like to 
add that one of the biggest issues in this chapter, in my opinion, 
is what exactly was Harry's role in Slughorn's house? Why exactly 
did DD bring him there? I have an overall impression that DD thought 
Slughorn would see a valuable source of monetary gain in famous 
Harry Potter, but I think that's not it. DD did say to Harry 'You 
showed Horace exactly how much he stands to gain by returning to 
Hogwarts.' I'd like to know what that 'exactly' means!!

Maybe there's an innocent enough explanation. How about 30 or 40% of 
the profit made by Mr. Eldred Worple, when he publishes the 
autobiography of The Boy who Lived?

Lucianam