PoA - Snape knew?

[whizbang]

No: HPFGUIDX 143482

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "colebiancardi" <muellem at b...>
wrote:

> well, that is one way to look at it.  But it is an interpretation, 
> not canon that actually stated that Snape knew about Barty Jr or was
> helping him. 

Whiz: 
It's not so much interpretation as looking at the scene from Snape's
PoV.   
colebiancardi:
 My interpretation of those scenes, starting with the
> staircase showdown, was that Snape was afraid of Mad-Eye, because
> Mad-Eye/Jr made threats about getting DE's who got away.  Also, at
> this time we didn't know Snape was an ex-DE who was spying for DD.  It
> could have been that Snape didn't want Mad-Eye poking around in his
> head and that Snape has had his office searched by Mad-Eye/Jr against
> Snape's wishes.  
> 
> The second scene outside of DD's office - I just chalked that up to
> Snape being, well, Snape.  He has no love for Harry.  Or maybe he knew
> that DD was coming down and wanted to torment Harry a bit.  Not saying
> it is right that Snape does this, but that is how I viewed it.  

Whiz:
And that is Harry's PoV, and we all know that Harry is so dreadfully
uninformed about nearly everything that his PoV is hopelessly limited
by the little information he does have.  Remember, Snape grabbed the
Dark Mark on his arm and Harry had no idea why.  At that point,
neither did we, but we discovered the reason later on.

colebiancardi: 
> The Foe-Glass to me tells me that Snape is not helping Barty.  That is
> canon - 
> "Oh that's my Foe-Glass.  See them out there, skulking around?  I'm
> not really in trouble until I see the whites of their eyes".  p 343 Am
> Ed Hardcover GoF
> 
> "Moody was thrown backward onto the office floor. Harry, still
> starting at the place where Moody's face had been, saw Albus
> Dumbledore, Professor Snape and Professor McGonagall looking back at
> him out of the Foe-Glass".  p. 679 GoF

Whiz:
Why would you think this means that Snape did not help BartyJr?  If he
helped Crouch/Moody against his will while plotting against him,
wouldn't he show up in the foe glass?  Remember, Barty hates a DE that
got away, and Snape would like to do just that.  
But, BartyJr answers to Vodle, and Snape can't take the chance that
BartyJr will carry tales of his disloyalty back to the DL.  He may not
want to be a DE, but Snape still has that nasty tattoo on his arm.

colebiancardi:
> but isn't Snape's own life in danger once all the muggleborns &
> half-bloods are gone - there are no half-breeds, they are called
> half-bloods.  

Whiz:
Hagrid, Fleur and Flitwick are all halfbreeds.

QUOTE: OotP, ch 33
"Of course not," said Hermione scathingly. "Hagrid might have set it
off accidentally"

"Yes," said Umbridge, whose excitement seemed to be mounting. "Yes, he
would have done, of course, the great half-breed oaf."

QUOTE: OotP ch 33
"That's right!" said Umbridge, in an even higher voice, "so be very
careful! By the laws laid down by the Department for the Regulation
and Control of Magical Creatures, any attack by half-breeds such as
yourselves on a human -"

"What did you call us?" shouted a wild-looking black centaur,-

Hagrid is part giant, Flitwick is part goblin and Fleur is part Veela.

Why would Snape's life be in danger?  Purebloods tolerate half bloods.
 As Hermione points out, the DEs would be happy to have Ron or Harry,
it's muggleborns like her they want to eliminate.  


colebiancardi:
Playing a dangerous game isn't he?  

Whiz:
Yes.  


colebiancardi:
> Remember, many in the wizarding community thought that LV was on the
> right track until LV got it into  his head that non-purebloods 
> should be destroyed.  

Whiz: ??????

QUOTE OotP page 6:
"No, no, but believe me, they thought Voldemort had the right idea,
they were all for the purification of the wizarding race, getting rid
of Muggle-borns and having pure-bloods in charge. They weren't alone,
either, there were quite a few people, before Voldemort showed his
true colours, who thought he had the right idea about things... they
got cold feet when they saw what he was prepared to do to get power,
though. But I bet my parents thought Regulus was a right little hero
for joining up at first."

They thought that Voldemort had the right idea when he did want to
purify the race.  They changed their minds when they realized he
wanted power for himself.


colebiancardi: 
> > I'll take it a step further.  I believe that Snape's animagus is an
> > insect, a buzzing insect to be precise.  And I'm toying with the idea
> > that he's Draco's godfather, though I'm fuzzy on that one.
> 
> what does Snape's animagus have to do with Snape helping Barty Jr? 
> And many people have stated they believe that Snape's animagus is also
> an insect - a bee, in fact.  To show loyality to DD.  

Whiz:
QUOTE  PoA, ch 16:
 'Harry was now the only person left to be tested.  He settled himself
on the floor with his back against the wall, listening to a fly
buzzing in the sunny window, his mind across the grounds with Hagrid.'

This was immediately before Trelawney gave Harry her second prophesy.

QUOTE OotP ch 31
 'It was several seconds before it occurred to him that he had not
taken in a word of it; there was a wasp buzzing distractingly against
one of the high windows. Slowly, tortuously, he at last began to write
an answer.'

This was immediately before Harry, unable to think straight, slipped
into the corridor dream.  I'm suggesting that Snape is responsible for
both.  And Snape gives a good explanation of the confundus charm and
it's effects at the end of PoA.

> Purebloods like the Malfoys would never have a half-blood like Snape
> be in any way, shape or form, connected somehow in the family.  A
> godfather's role is to help raise the child if the parents die or to
> offer spiritual advise.  The Malfoys use Snape and he uses them back.
>  I doubt think Snape is *that* close to the Malfoys at all.  

Whiz: 
The books suggest otherwise.  Narcissa calls Snape, Lucius good
friend.  And we know nothing about Snape's mother or her connections
in the magical world.  

colebiancardi:
> I think Snape is the go-to guy for them, but a godfather?  

Whiz:
Snape is an extrememly powerful wizard, well versed in the Dark Arts
and with unknown familial connections.  Now if you were a dark wizard
choosing a godfather for your child .....
> 
> colebiancardi
> (interpretation of scenes is not canon.  Otherwise, all my bright
> ideas could be called canon as well!!)

Whiz: I would argue that extrapolation is not canon.  But I'm not sure
that looking at scenes from a different point of view is noncanonical.
 I didn't change a word or extrapolate any possibilities.  I merely
looked at the scene on the stairs from the point of view of someone
with more backstory and information than Harry had at that time.