Harry IS Snape!/Power of forgiveness /OFH, ESE, DD!M Snape

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 141102

Lupinlore:
<SNIP>
> I agree that this would be hard to pull off with ESE!Snape, however 
> I don't really see why such a plotline would necessarily require a 
> DDM!Snape or even make such a thing particularly likely.  In fact, 
I 
> would say that it makes OFH!Snape much more likely.
> 
> Now the reason for that is this: In order for the power of 
> forgiveness to have its true and most powerful impact, it has to 
> have a transformative effect on BOTH parties.  <SNIP>But taken in a 
more restrictive sense, that it 
> would probably be good for Harry to not give in to hatred of Snape 
> or anyone else, I have no argument with it.
> 
> But what about the benefits of forgiveness for SNAPE?  One very 
> severe problem I have with both DDM and ESE theories of Snape is 
> that both make him into a more or less static character who cannot 
> grown and change, or fall and change, through the course of the 
> series.  He is either ESE and that's it or he's DDM and that's it --
 
> he is what he is and everything he does flows from that essential, 
> unchanging facet of his nature.  In effect, he becomes a mere prop.


Alla:

I agree with you  in a sense that I would like to see the effect of 
forgiveness to be shown for both of them, if this is indeed the story 
to be told, BUT I think it shows again that terms we use for 
different types of Snapes we talk about are quite loose.

For example - who says that ESE!Snape cannot eventually realise the 
power of forgiveness, even if he was primarily on evil side so far. 
OFH!Snape could be sort of Conflicted!Snape who really wants 
Voldemort to be gone, not because he loves Light side so much, but 
simply because he thinks that he (Snape) will be much happier, safer, 
whatever, when Voldemort is gone OR OFH!Snape could be the one who 
thinks that it would be better that Voldemort should prevail, because 
Voldemort could give him what Snape ultimately desires - power, 
prestige, recognition, etc. ( This is of course my opinion  that this 
is what Snape desires).

Also, DD!M Snape could  be the one who sincerely thought that he
(Snape) had no other choice but to kill Dumbledore, because otherwise 
he (Snape) will not be able to help good guys later, BUT at the same  
time deepd down inside what this Snape really wanted first and 
foremost was to survive the consequences of his stupidity on the 
Tower ( as I said before - this version of DD!Snape, who WILL help 
good guys , but who was incredibly stupid and who did commit  the act 
of moral cowardice on the Tower does appeal to me).

Also DD!Man Snape could be the one who was just following through 
with Dumbledore's plan to get himself (DD) killed on the Tower in 
order to be able to continue his spying activities and helping Harry.

SO, what was my point? Oh, yes. I absolutely agree that in order for 
the story of forgiveness to work we need Snape to be influenced by it 
too, to be changed by  Harry's forgiveness, just as Harry will be 
changed by the fact that he was able to forgive Snape, who hurt him 
so badly so many times. I am just not sure what kind of Snape  that 
will give us. OFH!, ESE!, or DD!M.

The only thing I know is that  the killing on the Tower should for 
that purpose if not the malicious killing, then at the very least the 
act of moral cowardice by Snape, IMO.


Lupinlore:
> I am not at all convinced that the power of love will necessarily 
> turn out to be the power of forgiveness, or if it does that it will 
> necessarily be the Harry/Snape dynamic that will come into play.  
> There are plenty of other candidates for something like that, 
> including Draco, Wormtail, and yes, even Voldemort himself.  

Alla:

I think Wormtail IS a very good candidate, personally, especially 
with JKR's insistence that his lifedebt to Harry wil come into play.

JMO<
Alla.