Destroying the horcruxes (The cave potion and soul pieces )

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 141139

> Valky:
> It occurs to me that the Diary and the Ring were probably
> destroyed in different ways. I deduce that Dumbledore may have
> attempted to re-enact to the best of his ability, the way Harry
> destroyed the Diary, but he could easily have discounted something
> important to the process, something small that Harry did, but he
> didn't. An error with the unfortunate consequence of leaving
> Dumbledore with no choice but to die sometime in the near future
> or give up all hope of defeating Voldemort. I'd call that a 'huge'
> mistake, wouldn't you?

Jen: From Dumbledore's explanation of the ring and then reading the 
cave sequence, the protections on the Horcruxes appear to be the 
dangerous part of the destruction. Harry destroyed the diary 
effortlessly because there were no protections on it, it was the 
only horcrux 'intended as a weapon as much as a safeguard' to lure 
someone into using it (Horcrux chapter). 

Dumbledore attributed his blackened hand to a 'terrible curse' upon 
the ring, and the later destruction of the horcrux back at Hogwarts 
seemed to have no particular ill effect on Dumbledore. Harry just 
noticed the ring sitting on the table with a crack in it, after the 
withered hand incident. 

Now, what the 'terrible curse' was we have to imagine, but it must 
have been as destructive as the potion/water. So Snape saved 
Dumbledore from the terrible curse, but was unable to get to him 
quickly enough after the potion. I think the moment Dumbledore chose 
to freeze Harry, losing his wand, was the point of no return for 
him. 

Valky(responding to J.'s idea the potion could actually possess the 
drinker):
> Ahh I understand know, but this IMO is kin to saying the
> Locket was not the Horcrux, the potion was. I am absolutely
> certain that noone (not even Voldemort) Voldemort can possess
> without using the soul.

Jen: JKR could make a potion do anything she wants it to do! I was 
imagining somehow Voldemort could place an essence of himself in the 
potion, that it wasn't the horcrux doing the possessing since there 
wasn't even a real horcrux in the bowl, rather as the ring had a 
curse upon it, the potion was the curse of possession protecting the 
supposed horcrux. Like you said though, can that happen without a 
soul? "Only if he poured some soul in the bowl" said Dr. Suess <g>. 
Oh well, if the potion doesn't possess (although I'm still rather 
attached to the idea) there's still time to come up with new ideas!

Lipa:
> This is fairly similar to what I have been thinking.
> Dumbledore was asking to be killed, quickly.
> My guess is that the curse from the ring and/or the
> potion/water combination from the cave were finishing him
> in a horrible way, dehumanizing him (Inferi, Dementors, 
> Ghosts, ... come to mind)
> and only timely death could save him from destiny
> which he considered worse than death.

Jen: Welcome, Lipa, this is a good group with many different views 
to choose from! 

You know, it suddenly struck me how *adventurous* (rash?) Dumbledore 
was in HBP, attempting to get past the ring protections alone and 
paying dearly for it, then drinking a potion he doesn't know the 
effects of. Guess he really does trust Severus Snape! At least he 
expects Snape will always be around to put the pieces back together. 
I'm almost convinced that was what the fight in the forest was 
about, Dumbeldore becoming slightly obsessed with the horcrux hunt & 
Snape not wanting to continue to patch him up. It's one of several 
possibilties, anyway.

About the potion/water. I like the idea Voldemort formed the potion 
to be an information device and the water to be the actual death 
agent. This would be a very sinister thing to do on Voldemort's 
part, using the potion to find out who was penetrating his defenses 
and why, then forcing the person to drink the actual quick-acting 
poison. It's overkill, but then Lord Voldemort does like his drama! 
That might explain why Dumbledore was dying so slowly since Harry 
only dribbled a bit on his lips and he didn't swallow it.

I'm not sure the water would turn someone into an Inferi b/c we have 
a mechanism for how that happens. And the ghosts, we know what 
causes a person to become a ghost as well. I *guess* we have an 
origin for the Dementors, seeing as they breed? If they can be 
created though, I'd expect it was the potion since Dumbledore's 
words might be interpreted as an extreme dementor experience--he 
certainly seemed very frightened and appeared unable to use magic to 
ward off whatever was happening.

Jen