Harry and James - only skin deep (was:Bullying WAS: Re: Prodigal Sons)

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 141249


> > >>Valky:
> > There has got to be at least a    
> > dozen passages in which someone who knew James well says to Harry 
> > he speaks like James or thinks like James or does something James 
> > would do (other than flying).
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Sirius and Snape both say Harry is like James, but they're both very 
> wrong, IMO.  Because they base that likeness on Harry breaking a 
> school rule or getting into trouble. 

Valky:
In regard to Snape's opinion I agree on that without question, as it
seems to me the basis for Snapes comparison was as equally based on
what he didn't know about James as it is on what he doesn't/didn't
know about Harry. He is close to neither of them really, so his
observations would definitely be 'skin deep', so to speak. 

Sirius' otherwise, knew James really well. We have the one main
difference that Sirius points out when Harry refuses to meet him in
Hogsmeade because the trio have seen evidence that Lucius knows his
animagus form. (Hey, aside: this could be the information Snape claims
to have passed on to the DE's about Sirius) In this respect Harry is
not like James because James would have relished the opportunity to
dance with the danger of being caught in the company of someone who
could get them all thrown in Azkaban. My interpretation of this is
that James was too passionately sporting, relatively safe challenges
being what they are, James would prefer greater stakes, possibly
motivating him to play harder. Harry clearly is not like this, but he
does have his fathers talent in respect of it, the greater and more
deadly the challenge the better and more admirably he performs.
harry is far from a show-off about it, though, while James absolutely
was. And this is one reason why I find it almost impossible to think
James would have 'fun' bullying Snape if there wasn't a very real
degree of danger involved in doing so. And in this case both Sirius'
claims that they got carried away with their own cleverness, and that
James always hated the Dark Arts, are corrollaries, not contradictions
as they are in other interpretations. But I digress, sorry.

Sirius does know James well, and I do believe there are a couple of
other quotes in POA and GOF which I don't have, that suggest a couple
of James other traits which are like Harry's. The fact that he
expected Harry to be 'all' like his father could actually be construed
as quite telling too. Surely he saw enough of James in Harry to begin
going with that expectation. IMO, we could probably meet in the middle
on this one, I can agree with what you have said, just not to the same
full extent as you have implied.

BTW, I think the POA quote about sparing Pettigrew that I mentioned
last post, was actually Dumbledore's words.


 
> Betsy Hp:
> James had an invisibility cloak while still a schoolboy.  That's 
> pretty darn telling, IMO.  It doesn't mean that the Potters were bad 
> parents.  I personally believe they were probably quite good.  But 
> they did make sure their boy had the best so I think it's quite 
> possible that James would excitedly suggest that he'd be able to get 
> his folks to buy him a broom.  (And I'm sure that, like Draco, James 
> would arrive for his first year sans broom.)

Valky:
We definitely agree, then, on that, James used the school brooms in
his first year. <g> Or maybe the correct term is misused. ;D

OTOH you have quite a good point about the Invisibility Cloak, James
definitely had it good there, didn't he. You know, it makes you wonder
if it wasn't a tradition for Potter men to have a lark at school as
best they could. It seems to me a bit impertinent of Mr Potter sr to
send his son to school with an Invisibility Cloak doesn't it <eg>
I concede and agree about Harry's grandparents being a bit soft on
James' little misdemeanours, they did give him advantages. 
I'm glad you agree that they weren't the same mould as the Malfoy's
though :D



> 
> > >>Betsy Hp: 
> > > And perhaps he share a funny story he'd heard about Hagrid when 
> > > Hagrid came to fetch Harry. 
<snip my reply>
> Betsy Hp:
> Maybe a funny little anecdote where Hagrid got drunk and nearly 
> burned down his house trying to do magic?  Of course, I think Draco 
> probably heard the story because his father was on the board of 
> goveners, so who knows if James would hear a similar tale.  But if 
> he did, I'd bet he'd eagerly share it.

Valky:
I have set myself up for a fll here, haven't I. Hagrid will be a hard
example to debate, seeing that at the time he was still convicted of
his supposed crime against Hogwarts. It's probably impossible to know
what a young James will have thought of Hagrid. I think I might have
to abort this mission <g>


> Betsy:
> Oh, and when does Hagrid become a trusted friend of James?  I was 
> under the impression that they didn't interact much.

Valky:
I thought that perhaps we were given this by the fact that Hagrid
could enter GH while Harry was still there under the SK charm.
I also think there were some comments by Hagrid in the beginning of
PS/SS that suggest he and the Potters were on close terms.

Thanking Betsy for an elucidating and lively debate.

Valky
Going shopping.