Nature of Dark Magic - Alternative Variations

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 141250

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nkafkafi" <nkafkafi at y...> wrote:
> >  
> > > bboyminn:
> > > 
> > > I would mostly agree with your list. By my point, my theory, is 
> > > that it is the nature of the creation that makes Dark Magic 'dark'
> > > and not the nature of it's use. ...
> > > 
>  
> > Neri:
> > My theory is that what makes dark magic *Dark* is INTENTION. That 
> > is, the very power of Dark Magic comes from intent of the wizard to 
> > harm somebody else, and it won't work at all unless there is an evil
> > intention.
> > 
> 
> bboyminn:
><snip>> 
> The problem I have is that /intention/, to me, implies an outward
> projection of desire, and I really don't think that outward projection
> is enough to make a spell 'dark' and certainly not 'Dark'. By the way,
> I do realize that I am picking an extremely fine nit here.
> 
> Let me reframe your hypothesis and see if we are still on the same
> page. Fake!Moody implies that casting the spell, the AK spell, would
> not be enough to kill him. The AK-Killing Curse needs a 'powerful bit
> of magic behind it'. So, I am now speculating that outward projection
> of desire, the desire to kill someone, would indeed NOT be enough to
> complete the Killing Curse, and this again brings me to, by my own
> interpretation, the uncomfortable use of the word /intention/. 
> 
> I don't think it is the outward projection of intented outcome that
> makes a spell Dark. Take the Partonus as an illustration, you can have
> all the outward intention you want, but if you aren't able to draw on
> that internal well of happy thoughts, the spell will fail. 
> 
> Extending this to your hypothesis, I don't think it is the intended
> outcome in the external world that makes a Dark spell Dark. I think it
> is the ability to draw on your own internal well of evil which then in
> turn 'fuels' the Killing Curse. The Darkness is in being able to draw
> that much evil intent/fuel from within yourself. It is this well of
> fuel that powers the spell and creates the /darkenss/, and not an
> outward intent to do harm.
> 
> Do you see the difference? 


Neri:
I see a difference, but I still don't see your argument. The intention
alone is surely not enough in *most* kinds of magic (or Hogwarts
education would have been redundant) but this doesn't mean the
intention can't be the defining property of a certain type of magic.

It's as if I said "I have a theory: a car needs wheels to run" and you
answered: "but Crouch!Moody said a car needs fuel to run, so I
conclude the wheels without the fuel wouldn't work." It's true, but
that doesn't mean the wheels can't be used to categorize the car as a
Wheeled Vehicle.

We have Bella's statement regarding the Unforgivables "you have to
*mean* them" (emphasis in the original) and regarding Cruciatus (but I
suspect this generalizes to the other Unforgivables as well) "you need
to really want to cause pain – to enjoy it – righteous anger won't
hurt me for long". We also have Crouch!Moody's statement regarding
Avada Kedavra that "it needs a powerful bit of magic behind it – you
could all get your wands out and point them at me and say the words,
and I doubt I'll get as much as a nosebleed". As I wrote above, these
two statements don't contradict, but the question is: What is the
unique property that defines Dark Magic? That it requires power and
skill? This is true for most magic.

Besides, I tend to believe Bella's statement more. *She* didn't have
anything to hide - she was being evil and proud of it. Crouch!Moody,
OTOH, couldn't very well say to his students "in order to produce a
successful AK you need to really mean it – to enjoy killing". First he
wasn't there to teach them how to do it (as he said himself).
Secondly, it would be tantamount to admitting that he really enjoyed
killing that spider, which would be a slight giveaway considering he
was trying to hide being a DE. So saying "it needs power" was the
convenient excuse. Of course it needs power. Most advanced magic does.
But is this the big secret?

I agree it's a fine distinction, yet an important one. It's the
distinction between abilities and choices all over again, and in the
Potterverse it's the choices that matter most. Actually, the
Potterverse is hardly original in this. Throughout most of western
history and literature, Dark Magic was regarded as the result of
making a conscious evil choice, usually symbolized by signing a
written contract with the devil or one of his demons. We don't have
devil and demons in the Potterverse, but I think the element of power
that comes from making an evil choice is still there.

> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> I think we can agree to agree that the Sectumsempra is probable 'dark'
>  rather than 'Dark'. <snip> 
> 
> I have a bit of trouble though with your speculation that the spell
> wouldn't have work if Harry hadn't hated Draco. It seems in that brief
> moment when Harry sees Draco crying and vulnerable, he has some slight
> sympathy for him. 

Neri:
Zgirnius http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/141236 
convinced me that Sectusempra *is* capitalized Dark Magic, at least
according to Snape. So I theorize that Harry's hate for Draco,
building throughout six long years of animosity and humiliations, came
through during that split second as a real intention to hurt him. But
I agree that Harry also felt a slight sympathy towards Draco the
moment before, and perhaps this was the small difference between dead
Draco and Draco coming out of this experience without a scratch.

This case, after all, wasn't the first time Harry tried to hurt Draco,
only in previous cases he was using non-Dark curses. The situation
here was like lashing at somebody with a rolled newspaper, trying to
hurt him as hard as you possibly can, only to discover that what you
thought was a rolled newspaper is actually a sharp knife. Only in this
case I speculate that the stronger your intention to hurt would be,
the sharper would be this knife.

Neri