Dumbledore's pleading (longish)

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 141445

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Nicolau C. Saldanha" 
<nicolau at m...> wrote:
>
> Hickengruendler wrote:
> > I simply cannot see Dumbledore begging for his life.
> 
> Eggplant:
> > I don't know, I think Dumbledore wanted to live. But if I had to 
guess
> > I'd say he was pleading with Snape not to betray him and tell 
him he
> > was never his friend and show that he'd been wrong about him for 
16
> > years. >

Nicolau:
 > IMO neither "DD was pleading for his life" nor "DD was
> asking Snape to kill him with AK" are satisfactory. I also find 
your
> theory less than satisfactory: if DD somehow finds out that Snape 
is a
> traitor (before he says anything or raises his wand, mind you),
> pleading "Severus, please..." is not an adequate reaction from the 
DD
> we know.
> 
> I add that I find speculation from DD's point of view to be much 
more
> solid than that from Snape's point of view. We know a lot about 
DD's 
> character both from the books and from JKR's interviews.


Renee <delurking for a moment>:

Speculating from DD's point of view looks like a promising approach. 
It could provide an explanation for the Tower scene that hasn't come 
up yet - but correct me if I'm wrong. 

The explanation would be, that DD willingly sacrifices himself. He 
knows Draco is unable to kill him (and will lose his life unless 
someone else does it for him) and he knows Snape will die if he 
doesn't kill him (how and when doesn't matter in this theory). But 
DD wants both of them to survive, and the only way to give both of 
them a chance is to be killed - by Snape. He also knows that Snape 
is doomed to leave Hogwarts anyway because of the DADA curse, and 
prefers Snape to leave alive. 

So, what DD requests from Snape is to become an "accomplice" to self-
sacrifice. DD has lost his wand and can hardly move from the spot, 
so he needs help. That is what he asks Snape when he says "Severus, 
please...": "Severus, please help me to carry out this sacrifice.""
They have discussed this possibility before, and Snape balked at the 
idea of having to do it. But DD won't let him of the hook, now that 
the situation has arisen where the sacrifice is required. Snape 
hates it, as the look on his face makes clear, but he keeps his 
promise.

This explanation doesn't require an act of Legilimency (canonically 
debatable). It doesn't involve euthanasia, because DD *chooses* to 
die for others, instead of asking to be put out of his misery (which 
would be ethically and morally debatable and OOC for Dumbledore). 
The liquid in the cave doesn't have to be a deadly poison for which 
no cure is available. It doesn't require the events on the Tower to 
have been planned in advance by DD; this is just a worst case 
scenario. DD doesn't plead for mercy and Snape doesn't hate him, 
merely the deed he has to do. (AK doesn't take hatred, only the will 
to kill, just like Crucio doesn't take hatred, only the will to 
hurt.) 

What the heory does require is, that Snape told DD about the UV 
shortly after making it, and that DD reached the correct conclusion 
regarding what it was Draco had been told to do - he's intelligent 
enough to figure it out, after all. This in its turn explains why he 
gave Snape the DADA job, and it also explains the discussion in the 
Forest. It explains the agony on Snape's face when Harry calls him a 
coward. In short, it requires a single piece of speculation, makes a 
number of other speculations superfluous and answers several 
questions.

Does it absolve Snape? Not entirely. Saving Draco and himself by 
killing DD remains the lesser of two evils. It is better than if DD, 
Draco and Snape all end up dead (I don't for a moment believe that 
Snape had the time to take out the DEs and Greyback one by one, at 
his leisure, and blowing up the tower like Wormtail blew up a street 
full of Muggles would be counterproductive, as it would also blow up 
DD.) But Snape remains a killer, whether he AKs DD or blasts him 
over the parapet. He's Dumbledore's man, and neither ESE nor OFH, 
but that doesn't make him a good guy. 

As I see it, this is another instant of JKR's habit to have people's 
wrong choices catch up with them. Ultimately, the personal no-win 
situation Snape faces on the Tower is a consequence of the wrong 
choice he made once: to serve Voldemort. Even if he repented and 
turned away from the Dark Lord, this doesn't undo his past. It 
catches up with him on the Tower: he is doomed to choose between two 
evils. (And that it happens when it does, is a consequence of the 
DADA curse, which always seems to work in a way related to the 
personality and history of the teacher.) 

It sounds like a harsh lesson, but I believe JKR is capable of 
including it in a book aimed at an audience of 10-15 year olds. 

Renee