Dumbledore's pleading

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 141469

Alla:
> If indeed Dumbledore and Snape understood each other so completely
> why then Dumbledore needs to plead at all? I mean in this
> scenario, Snape knows what needs to be done, right? he can figure
> out that Dumbledore wants to sacrifice himself and is eager to do
> it right away. Why plead then?

Jen: Well see, now the moment is ruined ;). I wanted to savor my 
character moment, the last between these two men who have shared a 
long history together, much of which Harry and we know little about, 
without addressing exactly what passed between them.

Here's a symbolic thought for the argument, though: On the lightning-
struck tower card, two figures are falling off the tower. The card 
doesn't represent literal death, but for plot purposes one figure 
was Dumbledore and one symbolized Snape's fall from grace in the 
physical world (i.e. he's lost everything material, including 
other's belief in him). Both figures are required to fall for the 
Seeker to know the Truth; The violent crumbling of the tower clears 
the way for the Seeker to move forward.

Carol made the very interesting point in post #141420 
that "Dumbledore's big mistake, in my view, was in flying to the 
tower, right into the DE's trap, instead of sending Harry for Snape 
as he originally intended." 

I believe this was not a mistake, and in fact, supports the idea 
Dumbledore very much understood his own sacrifice might be required. 
He went to the one place he *knew* he would be found, and in fact, 
his order for Harry to leave him and find Snape was not intended so 
Snape could bring him an antidote or help fight the DE's, but to get 
Harry out of the way when the DE's and Darco ascended the tower. If 
Dumbledore had his way, I suspect neither Snape nor Harry would have 
been on the tower that night at the moment of his death, but fate 
required both to be present in a metaphorical sense.

Alla:
> Self-sacrifice - YES,absolutely, but not tagging Snape along so to 
> speak, JMO, of course. DD sacrificing himself for kids is
> perfectly IC for DD as I read 
> him,  Dumbledore sacrificing Snape is something I cannot see no
> matter how hard I try ( that killing hurts the soul stops me)

Jen: When Dumbledore flew to the tower and voluntarily lost his 
wand, he understood exactly what he was doing. Having Harry frozen 
on the tower with him was an unintended consequence. I feel like 
whatever understanding passed between Snape and Dumbledore was more 
of a joint decision (and not planned beforehand) than a pleading on 
Dumbledore's behalf to 'kill me now' and Snape obliging. Steve 
addresses this in a more literal sense in post #141462. In a 
symbolic sense, once Snape entered the tower he was required to be 
part of the plan in which two sacrifices were made. 

At the moment it doesn't appear Harry has benefitted in any way from 
the events on the tower. But he will. He will come to truly 
understand he is marked as Voldemort's equal and how the power he 
holds will help him bring about Voldemort's ruin. We see glimmers of 
this at the funeral. More important, to become a whole person in the 
symbolic sense of the hero's journey, Harry will understand Snape's 
purpose, both on the tower and in his (Harry's) life. Snape is his 
shadow self and Harry must come to terms with that Slytherin part of 
himself directly with Snape, or as Magpie postulated in post 
#141348, through both Snape and Draco.

Jen