Twist JKR? (was:Re: Dumbledore's pleading...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 141571

> >>Nora: 
> But 'Voldemort as Slytherin's Heir' isn't particularly twisty, I'd 
> say; it's something at least set up for us with the association of 
> Slytherin and DEs.

Betsy Hp:
Oh sure, easy to say that *now*. <g>  Are you telling me you totally 
predicted that somehow *Voldemort* was back at Hogwarts and 
summoning the beast of the Chamber?  And that you knew young Tom 
Riddle was in fact, young Voldemort?  I didn't.  And while it made 
perfect sense that Voldemort was Slytherin's heir, the fact that it 
made sense after the reveal only points to the fact that it was a 
*good* twist.  (A twist that leaves the audience scratching their 
heads is a bad twist.  It *should* make sense once it's revealed.)

> >>Nora:
> *Ginny* being the person doing the things is the twist at the end 
> of CoS...

Betsy Hp:
It's *part* of the twist.  The diary, Tom Riddle, and Voldemort all 
make up the final twist.

> >>NoraL
> ...(just like the revelation of Crouch!Moody is the twist), but   
> Voldemort returning?  Eh, it's a major plot development, but it's 
> not the 'thing we thought was one thing and turned out to be      
> another', you know?

Betsy Hp:
It was a plot development, yes.  But it was told, as is usual with 
JKR, in a twisty sort of way.   Fake!Moody's true loyalty and agenda 
were all directed towards Voldmort and his return.  That was an 
unexpected turn to the tale.  (Snape being sent to spy was another 
twist, I think.)  
 
> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Ooh, I think you're *really* mistaken here.  The resolution of 
> > Snape's story arc will send screams of either joy or pain 
> > throughout fandom.

> >>Nora: 
> Well, of course. :)  I've been waiting for that Schadenfreude for 
> some time.  As at least some people are going to be screaming in   
> rage no matter what happens, I'm counting on some first-rate      
> entertainment.

Betsy Hp:
Yes, but will it beat the great Shipping Meltdown of '05? <g>

> >>Nora: 
> I think it's possible to resolve it without anything particularly 
> twisty--which in this case, I'd classify as something that neither 
> camp (or none out of three or so) has predicted.  You know that it 
> could be as direct as "this is actually what Snape did", without   
> that kind of shock element.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Well *yes*, but why on earth would JKR do that?  It goes completely 
against her story-telling style so far, and it would be boring.  
After all the set up JKR has gone through with Snape, why have no 
pay off in the end?  It seems rather pointless to me.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > So?  That many suggested twisty theories have been shown to be 
> > wrong doesn't mean there's not going to be any twist             
> > whatsoever.

> >>Nora: 
> Dangerous extrapolation to assume, although possible.  What I      
> thought I'd been suggesting is that the fandom is overestimating  
> and overvaluing the actual twist.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Oh, sure.  Fandom takes things too far, at times, in their quest for 
a extra-special, super-duper, twist.  We've got time on our hands so 
it happens.  But to go to the other extreme and suggest there will 
be no twist whatsoever is even more dangerous, IMO, when it comes to 
prediction games.  JKR writes with twists.  Every book has one, and 
to think that her smallest twist will come at the end of the tale is 
to completely discount her style, IMO. 

> >>Nora:
> <snip>
> Nothing says she has to twist at the end as well--it could be on a 
> model where we move out of obscurity and into clarity and          
> directness.

Betsy Hp:
It's her books, she can do what she wants, of course.  But, as you 
pointed out, all of the books have had a twist so I think it would 
be jarring if the last book didn't have one.  I'm not sure how that 
rules out "clarity and directness".  The end of CoS was pretty clear 
and direct and included a twist.  So did PoA.  "Sirius isn't the 
guilty party; it was Scabbers all along!!" <insert "dun, dun, 
DUUNN!" here>.

> > Betsy Hp:
> > Yup! <g>  The "not evil" bit is exactly it.  I'd been arguing    
> > that point for a while and it was very nice to have it cleared  
> > up once and for all.  Slytherins are just as human as the rest   
> > of the Hogwarts' student body.

> >>Nora: 
> Just considerably less well-behaved and contributing to the        
> welfare of the school than others...
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
If, um, you totally ignore the Weasley twins or Cho's friend....  As 
I said, human.  

(Have you read Magpie's post on Slytherin?  She points out that by 
rejecting Slytherin, Hogwarts has, in a sense, not allowed 
Slytherins to contribute to the school.  Something that obviously 
needs to change.  It's here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/141348 )

> >>Nora:
> (not to mention pesky lurking ideas like the Good).
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yes, trying to protect your mother's life is *so* not good. <g>  
Though, actually, I think JKR has gone out of her way to *not* go 
all CS Lewis on us.  Not many characters are really, really, good.  
Even Harry likes to throw an Unforgivable or two.

> >>Nora;
> If Slughorn is a representative Slytherin, I suppose it's an 
> improvement over Snape, Lucius Malfoy, and Voldemort. 
> But then I can also specialize in damning with faint praise. :)

Betsy Hp:
Heh.  Yes, I'd say Slughorn is a better man than Voldemort.  And the 
most important thing?  Harry realizes it.  I'm betting we'll get 
some better examples in book 7.  (Is that Draco waiting in the 
wings? <eg>)

Betsy Hp