Twist JKR? (was:Re: Dumbledore's pleading...)

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 141576

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:
>

> Betsy Hp:
> Oh sure, easy to say that *now*. <g>  Are you telling me you 
> totally predicted that somehow *Voldemort* was back at Hogwarts and 
> summoning the beast of the Chamber?

It's been far too long for me to accurately recall how I read CoS 
back in the day, but I don't remember being genuinely surprised, no.

> Betsy Hp:
> It's *part* of the twist.  The diary, Tom Riddle, and Voldemort all 
> make up the final twist.

But Ginny is the really twisty, really BANG-y part of the thing.

> Betsy Hp:
> Yes, but will it beat the great Shipping Meltdown of '05? <g>

Without a doubt.

> Betsy Hp:
> Well *yes*, but why on earth would JKR do that?  It goes completely 
> against her story-telling style so far, and it would be boring.  
> After all the set up JKR has gone through with Snape, why have no 
> pay off in the end?  It seems rather pointless to me.

There are, natch, many different categories of payoff.  You have to 
leave open the possibility that she's been laughing at how we've 
contorted ourselves to explain Snapeykins, while the reality is 
something far more direct.  The reality is certainly something that 
she knows, and likes to drop little hints to us about how she knows 
it and we don't.  In fact, I'd argue that directness is precisely 
what we've conditioned ourselves *not* to expect, to such a degree 
that the direct would be maximally BANG-y.

I do expect things like revelations about what side he's been on 
(either the whole time or flipping), why he did things, blah blah 
blah.  But I also expect these things to come out as fairly solid and 
settled.  Snape's interest as a character is something I'm going to 
predict is actually somewhat more shortlived than the more fully 
realized creatures on the page.  So much of his fan interest is 
predicated upon the multiple possibilities and the unknowable issues 
and motivations.  You kill off most of those, as I suspect JKR is 
going to take a fiendish amount of glee in doing, and you leave 
people high and dry to go sulk over their own nuked backstories and 
ideas.

> Betsy Hp:
> It's her books, she can do what she wants, of course.  But, as you 
> pointed out, all of the books have had a twist so I think it would 
> be jarring if the last book didn't have one.

I think I do repeat myself when I say that to me, the last two books 
have not had the same kind of mystery structure (although there are 
elements in common) as the first four.  We've already gotten hints 
that book 7 is going to be even more radical in breaking open the 
format, with a potential shift into fantasy quest mode.  Is now the 
time that I should say I think reading the books as mysteries is also 
typically overemphasized? :)

> (Have you read Magpie's post on Slytherin?  She points out that by 
> rejecting Slytherin, Hogwarts has, in a sense, not allowed 
> Slytherins to contribute to the school.  Something that obviously 
> needs to change.  It's here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/141348 )

I don't particularly buy the construction of agency with Hogwarts 
ganging up on/rejecting Slytherin.  They're not the oppressed, 
they're The Man, in infancy.  So I read it more as self-isolation 
than that.  YMMV.

> Betsy Hp:
> Yes, trying to protect your mother's life is *so* not good. <g>  

I said The Good, not good. :)  Setting your mother's life above the 
welfare of others, and the life of one figure who is most powerfully 
involved in the fight to protect many more people from a band of 
genocidal maniacs...eh, we're getting into the territory of 
ethicists, so let's not go there onlist.

> Betsy Hp:
> Heh.  Yes, I'd say Slughorn is a better man than Voldemort.  And 
> the most important thing?  Harry realizes it.  I'm betting we'll 
> get some better examples in book 7.  (Is that Draco waiting in the 
> wings? <eg>)

Probably only if Draco is genuinely sorry for the wrongs that he's 
done, as opposed to mainly being upset that things didn't work out 
for him like he would have wanted them to.  That would be a quantum 
leap in his character, to get over his self-centeredness (and yes, 
that does include his elevation of his blood kin as more deserving of 
consideration than many others), so we can't rule it out.

-Nora wouldn't mind, now that we mention Schadenfreude, Draco kicking 
it just to further frustrate hordes of shippers...