Draco, the UV, and the First Time - The Overblown Vow

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 141623

Steve (bboyminn) wrote:
> 
<snip> I think this whole Unbreakable Vow 'thing' is way overrated. I
think unless you construct and word the Vow with iron-clad certainty
and precision, it is pretty much worthless.

<snip quote>

> Notice Snape physical reaction to the third part of the Vow. I think
he is very confident about the first two, and the first two are
afteral what he originally agreed to, but the third is obviously
straying into territory that Snape hasn't planned on. Unfortunately he
is committed, and it will look very bad if he backs out now. 
><snip>
> The first problem is that we are assuming Snape knows what the Deed
is and that he knows it in it's entirety. If Snape only knows about
the Vanishing Cabinet when he takes the Vow, is he then absolved of
the 'killing Dumbledore' deed? And, most importantly, if it hinges on
what Snape knows about the Deed, if he knows nothing, is he then
inturn bound to nothing? And if he is bound to nothing, then
reasonably, the Vow means nothing. This really does beg the question,
can you make an Unknown Unbreakable Vow, can you vow to something
while at the same time having no idea what that 'something' is? 
> 
> Further, let's say that Snape is bound to Draco's final and greatest
> task; although I seriously doubt it. No time frame is specified.
There is nothing in the Vow that says that the instant Draco refuses,
Snape must step forward or die. <snip>
> As far as the on-going enforcement of the Vow. The third section is
> fulfilled, and the first two only involve 'trying', he isn't
required to suceed, so I don't see the Vow as being effectively
inforce any longer.
> 
> Overal, I see the whole Unbreakable Vow process riddled with
> loopholes, and these specific Vows are certainly vague and
uncertain. <snip>

Carol responds:
This is not an explanation or an answer to your post, of course, but
for plot reasons the vow has to be vague. The reader can't know (yet)
exactly what's required of Draco or how much Snape knows. Is he
bluffing or not? Why does he agree to the vow? Can he "slither" out of
it? Etc.

I don't think anyone has argued that "the deed" Narcissa wants Snape
to help Draco with and that she's afraid he'll fail to accomplish is
fixing the vanishing cabinet. That's only the means to an end. It's
also the specific piece of information that Snape tries to get from
Draco and fails to discover because of Draco's obvious attempt at
Occlumency. (He can block the thought from view but can't disguise the
Occlumency as Snape can.) "The deed" is almost certainly killing
Dumbledore. Or at least that seems to be Snape's interpretation as he
sizes up the situation and makes his decision on the tower. And he
certainly takes his responsibility for protecting Draco seriously,
whether because of the vow or for more altruistic reasons is unclear.

I personally think that the vow is so conspicuously placed because it
controls the action of the tower scene and places Snape in a trap of
his own making. And the hand twitch seems to indicate that Snape
senses exactly that.

However, I'm not arguing with you, just stating my own views, which
happen to conflict with yours. What I'd like to know is what you make
of Snape's decisions on the tower. If the vow isn't binding, why
bother to rush upstairs? Why not just reveal his loyalties and fight
with the Order or the Death Eaters if he's not going to drop dead for
failing to keep the vow? And why kill Dumbledore at all? Why not let
someone else take the fall if he's not bound by an oath to do it?

It makes no sense to me that he would murder Dumbledore for no reason,
after having saved his life earlier in the year. He certainly doesn't
gloat, as you've pointed out in previous posts, he saves Draco, and he
gets the DEs out of Hogwarts. (Again, I know you've made these same
points in earlier posts.) So how do you reconcile the evil action of
an unnecessary murder with the selfless (or DDM!) action of saving
Draco and getting the DEs away from Harry and the school? I don't see
how Snape's actions can be explained without the vow shaping them, or
how the killing of Dumbledore can in any way be justified unless the
vow forced his hand and he was faced with the choices already
discussed: kill a dying Dumbledore and save Draco, Harry, and others;
or die himself and save no one.

And to throw in a point from an unrelated thread, you were talking
about shortcuts to the Horcruxes. I think Harry will go to the ROR to
retrieve the HBP's Potions book, find the Mirror of Erised there, and
see his heart's desire, the location of that mysterious Ravenclaw
Horcrux, which will turn out to be the tiara he used to mark the
location of the Potions book. Shortcut enough for you? Or just cheating?

Carol, hoping she hasn't ruined her post by adding unrelated material