Which characters are dynamic?

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 141821

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:

<snip>
 
> Betsy Hp:
> And which note would that be?  The one where he disciplines Harry 
> whenever he catches him in wrongdoing?  The one where he saves 
> Harry's life whenever he's around when Harry's life is in 
> jeopardy?  The one where he tries to help Harry keep Voldemort out 
> of his head?  The one where he takes great pleasure in badmouthing 
> Harry's father?

The note that I overwhelmingly read of Snape towards Harry is, 
regardless of whether his actions (can be read to be) beneficial or 
vindictive, is "you are a little shit, I have an accurate estimation 
of who and what you are, and you are not special."  Special emphasis 
on how much Snape thinks he's right on #2, which he tends to think 
about most people and things: oh, Snapeykins, never get around to 
reading those classical tragoidiai?  I'd agree that Harry has a 
rather limited perspective on Snape, although I'd still think it 
would be absolutely hilarious if Harry's suspicions turned out to be 
fundamentally correct, finally.

But Snape is probably misreading Harry, as well.  He *does* 
continually harp upon James (got to love how Snape brings that up 
even when he's, you know, just killed the Headmaster and is fleeing 
the castle), and even Dumbledore has commented upon Snape's 
relationship to Harry being continually inflected by that.  [And here 
I thought you DDM! theorists believed in Dumbledore no matter what he 
said.]  Is there any appreciation for Harry's sterling qualities, 
which all the rest of the professoriate seem to pick up on?  Anything 
like the love and comraderie shared with Dumbledore?  Grudging at 
best, malicious at worst.

Every time I go back and read the books to remind myself of what's 
actually there, I'm surprised about how little of it there is.

> Betsy Hp:
> Agrees.  But then, the Potterverse characters are not the most 
> complex characters out there.  Within the Potterverse, however, 
> Snape is one of the more complex characters.

I'd say potentially complex, because as I've harped on before, 
Snape's complexity--being based on withholds--is the kind that can be 
collapsed with a few revelations.  For instance, say that he *is* 
ESE: he's not nearly as complex then, is he, because his 'conversion' 
was not sincere.  Or say that we find out he's had one major 
motivating reason for everything he's done.  Less complex, in an 
instant...like how a fraction reduces down.

> Within the Harry/Snape relationship the problem, IMO, has always 
> been Harry.  It's Harry who needs to change his view of Snape, not 
> the other way around. 

I think at minimum it's mutual.  Snape has certainly shown minimal 
signs of any kind of flexibility and adaptation in his views of 
Harry.  I find it hard to imagine that Snape has/could have the kind 
of faith in Harry that Dumbledore had, for instance.  Do any of us 
(especially you folks who rely so heavily upon Dumbledore's 
judgement) think that DD is wrong in this?  If he's not wrong, 
doesn't Snape need to change his view of Harry and embrace him as the 
agent of Voldemort's downfall?

-Nora laughs and agrees that poor characters get no choice about the 
novel that they're in