Dumbledore's mistakes?

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 141875

> Elyse: 
<snip>
Dumbledore was no psychiatrist either. How could he 
> possibly know the terrible things that this child *might* do ten 
or 
> twenty years in the future? Even DD says himself:
> "Did I know then that I had met the most dangerous Dark wizard of 
> all time? No I had no idea he was to grow up to be what he is."
> (pg 258 in my book)

Alla:

IF Dumbledore indeed knew nothing of what Tom already had done, that 
would be a different story, but the problem is - he did. Of course, 
not that he had done as much harm at elven as he did as Lord 
Voldemort, but he knew what Tom did to those three chidren and he 
WAS concerned about it. 



Elyse: 
> And what could he have possibly done about it if he knew? He wasnt 
> the headmaster, he wasnt the minister for magic, and I'm guessing 
> these are only people with the power to deny a wizard child the 
> privilege of education. And if he had not allowed Tom Riddle to 
> enter Hogwarts, he would have been a Dark wizard running amok in 
the 
> Muggle world, which would surely have been more dangerous.


Alla:

I think I already said what I think Dumbledore should have done , if 
indeed he decided to let Tom come to Hogwarts ( and you are right, 
it maybe not up to him, but since Mcgonagall signs welcoming letters 
and checks the book where magical childs names are written, maybe it 
was up to him too. Of course I am only speculating that he was 
Deputy Headmaster at the moment)

Dumbledore should have told SOMEBODY about his suspicions and if he 
did not want publickly embarass Tom, well, to say couple of quiet 
words to his Head of  the House would have been enough, IMO.

> Elyse: 

Oh I have to disagree with you here! I dont think Dumbledore 
> would let his personal trust or belief in  others interfere with 
the 
> safety of his students. I think this is more than evident from the 
> scene in HBP:
> Harry says something along the lines of :"You're leaving the 
school 
> tonight and I'll bet you havent even considered that Snape and 
> Malfoy might decide to-"
> And *this* is the point where DD becomes angry. Harry feels he has 
> crossed an invisible line. And DD says:
> "Please do not suggest that I do not take the safety of my 
students 
> seriously, Harry"
>  And hey, if he says that to his favourite boy, the Chosen One who 
> he cares so much for, I say thats what he would have said to us 
too.


Alla:

Erm... If I am still not clear enough, I think that what Dumbledore 
said and what Dumbledore does are two different things sometimes, as 
in that situation you quoted. He surely wishes to  do the best job 
he can, but IMO he is so not up to the task sometimes ( safety wise)

Dumbledore THOUGHT he knew what Draco was up to, and he paid no 
attention whatsoever to Harry's warnings. Result? Draco repairing 
the cabinet and letting DE into school. Dumbledore WAS surprised by 
Dark Mark, so I hope you are not arguing that he wanted DE to get 
into Hogwarts, but the fact and the matter - they did.

This is a great example of major flaw ( sort of) I see in 
Dumbledore - he is too wise for his own good. H



> Elyse: 
Heh Heh, this is so hilariously funny. All the time DD was 
> screaming himself hoarse about how he trusted Severus Snape 
> completely, it was only after his death that it was revealed how 
> little they trusted Snape all these years. It seems, judging from 
> his reaction, that Hagrid was the only one who really accepted 
DD's 
> second-hand trust.

Alla:

But they DID accepted Dumbledore second hand trust and they did 
trust Snape second handedly, and they would have been continued 
doing so, had Snape not murdered t he person ,who insisted that they 
should trust Snape, IMO.


Elyse: 
> But how many people would have really accepted 
> DD's claims that this nice quiet sweet intelligent boy was really 
a 
> psychopath? 
> They would have said the same stuff the Snape haters have done for 
> all this time, and simply thrown his hands into the air and 
> gone "You know what, the old man is Wrong! He's getting old, and 
in 
> the matter of his prejudice towars that lovely boy, well his 
> judgement is just a little biased thats all."
> Thats is after all what Snape haters keep harping on. I'm sure it 
> would have been the same if he declared to the teachers that 
Riddle 
> was evil.


Alla:

I do not follow you, sorry. What are you basing your assumption on 
that if Dumbledore told the teachers that Tommie Riddle is a child 
who needs to be watched after, a psychopath in making,  they would 
not listened to him.

As I said above - all teachers tolerated Snape ONLY because 
Dumbledore said so, IMO and  the only reason they thought that 
Dumbledore was wrong, well, because Snape killed him.

I think it is a huge show of trust that they accepted Snape as 
colleague based on Dumbledore's word only. Do you have canon showing 
that teachers mistrusted Dumbledore for any reason?

Also, I am not sure what do you mean by "this is what Snape haters 
keep harping on" 

> Elyse:  
I think someone has already addressed this pointing out that 
> Snape has never actually endangered students, but on the contrary, 
> saved a number of lives.

Alla:

Well, I am of different opinion. I think that making someone so 
afraid of you that you become their Boggart means endangering the 
psyche of that student on the permanent basis. I think that making 
student feel so afraid of you that he feels that he is imprisoning 
himself when he stays with you in the same room means endagering 
that student too.

I think that throwing the student out of your office, no matter WHAT 
that student did and how wrong that student had been also means 
endangering that student.




Elyse:
> But yes, I yeild to your argument that DD could have found a job 
for 
> him somewhere else. (Although I shudder to think what kind of 
> potions he might have brewed at that Potion Research Institute if 
he 
> was inventing Sectumsemprs at fifteen) :-)

Alla:

LOL!

> 
> Elyse: And hopefully we will see Snape being genuinely remorseful 
in 
> the last book. 
<snip>


Alla:

Yeah, hopefully. :-)


> Elyse: Dunno bout the spelling but if Snape was DDM all along 
then, 
> he we did see him make a LOT of sacrifices like saving Harry's 
ass, 
> and Draco's too.

Alla:

See, I don't know what the sacrifice was. Like was Snape in any 
danger when he was saving Harry? He did a good deed, true (although 
I can think of many self serving motivations for that), but 
sacrifice?

Was Snape robbed of something improtant to him after he saved Harry?


JMO,

Alla